Suicide Prevention for Autistic Adults

Segment 1

Transcript

Suicide Prevention for Autistic Adults

September 3^rd, 2023

Welcome everyone to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by an Autistic Adult.  My name is Philip King-Lowe. I am the owner, producer, and host; and I am an Autistic Adult. Thank you so much for listening.

Today’s Autistic Moment is a member of The Autistic Podcasters Network.

Today’s Autistic Moment is a free podcast that puts Autistic Adults front and center, where our stories are always the headline. 

This first segment of Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored by The Autism Society of Minnesota: Minnesota’s First Autism Resource.  For over 50 years The Autism Society of Minnesota has been honored to support Minnesota’s Autism Community. Visit them online at ausm.org.

Thank you for joining me for this episode Suicide Prevention for Autistic Adults. Lisa Morgan is my guest for this show. 

Please visit todaysautisticmoment.com where you can listen to the podcast, get transcripts, program updates, and read the guest bios pages.  Please visit the Future Shows Page with the titles, guests, and descriptions of all the shows coming up through November.  The transcripts are sponsored by Minnesota Independence College & Community. The transcripts can be read and followed from the website.  There is a link provided to get access to a document form of the transcript that you can print it, so it won’t use up the ink on your printer.  The written document transcript has a font that is accessible for dyslexics.  While visiting the website, please consider supporting the work of Today’s Autistic Moment with a financial donation or purchase an item from the Logo Shop.

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If you listened to the opening theme for this show and you are thinking that you heard something a little different, you are correct. You did. The catchphrase for Today’s Autistic Moment has been updated.  I know that Autistics and our stories are set aside by people who think they have the right to question us.  Many Autistic Adults who live independently are sometimes suspected of faking to fleece the system.  Autistics with higher support needs who may be nonspeaking and use Augmentative and Alternative (AAC) devices are all too often presumed to be unintelligent and therefore the funding for their support needs are not adequate. Today’s Autistic Moment is the podcast where you are validated.  Today’s Autistic Moment not only shares in what Autistic Adults are experiencing, but we also put you and your stories front and center, as the headline for what my guests and I talk about.  Today’s Autistic Moment is here for Autistic Adults and our caregivers to hear our conversations about the topics that we live through to find some supports and resources to help us through the rough times we are living through. 

You are invited to join me and six Autistic individuals on the YouTube Channel @todaysautisticmoment on Wednesday, October 19^th at 2:00pm central standard time for Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussions: Your Behavior Is Not Appropriate.  Every Autistic has heard those words too many times to count on our fingers and toes.  Most likely there are Autistics out there who just heard a manager at their workplace tell them that their behavior is not appropriate.  Autistics have heard those words from parents or while dating someone.  Autistics hear the words your behavior is not appropriate when we have tried to ask someone for help or spoken up at an event where they ask for the input of everyone there.  The Autistic gives their input through our unique way of communicating, and we get told our behavior along with what we said was not appropriate.  Six Autistic individuals are going to talk together about how we feel when we hear someone say those words.  Please join us for this incredible conversation.

Two episodes ago, you heard my conversation with Becca Lory Hector, Carole Jean Whittington and Dr. Scott Frasard about Self-Care After Autistic Diagnosis/Identification.  The first few months and years after a late diagnosis/identification are full of uncertainty.  Autistics may understand clearly for the first time why their lives have been so difficult.  They may realize why they couldn’t hold on to a job they loved. For some Autistics, after a diagnosis/identification will inform their manager that they are Autistic, and the manager will assume they no longer have the ability to do their jobs, and they terminate them. Many Autistics are trying to get disability benefits with no one to help them keep their home while they go through the long-drawn-out process.  They turn to resource centers, and no one has enough training about Autism, and they invalidate us and dismiss us.  What many Autistics experience in these times is thwarted belonging.  These are only a few reasons why Autistics might experience suicidal ideation.  I probably have listeners that are going through suicidal ideation as I am talking at this moment.

Lisa Morgan is back on Today’s Autistic Moment to talk about why many independent Autistic Adults experience suicidal ideation.  Lisa will explain what suicidal ideation is, and what many Autistics need to help them turn back and do some important self-care. Lisa is an Autistic Adult who has experienced suicidal ideation. Lisa knows what it is like to be unintentionally harmed by well-meaning professionals who don’t see our strengths and validate us. Lisa’s work on autismcrisissupport.com contains resources to help Autistics use their strengths to turn from suicidal ideation and rebuild their lives to reach for their greater potential.  You will hear Lisa talk about some of those resources in a few minutes.

Before the commercial break, I want to prepare those with auditory sensory needs that you will hear a little feedback while Lisa was talking during the interview.  I have put the recording through my sound lab to edit it out, but I am not able to eliminate it completely without losing the important points Lisa makes.  The feedback goes out a few times during the recording, so you can listen to Lisa more clearly, but it does come back on a few occasions.  You may want to turn the volume down a little on your device to help reduce the feedback.  I do apologize and appreciate your patience.

Stay tuned after this first commercial break for my conversation with Lisa Morgan.

Commercial Break I

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Segment 2

Philip King-Lowe

Lisa Morgan, welcome back to Today's Autistic Moment. It's so great to have you on as a guest today.

Lisa Morgan

Thank you.  It's great to be back.  It's great to be on again.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah, definitely. Well, we have started Suicide Prevention Month, which September always is. And I know that you do a lot of work with Autistics in crisis situations. So, I think it's a great way to begin by talking about suicide prevention for Autistic Adults and, and that sort of thing. Um, and so I'm gonna let you start because of all the information you have to share. So, let's start with what important information do Autistic Adults in our caregivers need to know about? And let's also talk about some of the barriers, the many barriers that exist because suicide prevention, in general is a rough thing. But when they talk about Autistic Adults, there are other things to be considered here. So go ahead and answer those questions.

Lisa Morgan 

Well, I mean, I think what needs to be known really is that suicide is a leading cause of premature death for Autistic people. There are a lot of providers who don't understand that a lot of people who support in crisis centers and just are in a, in a place to support people in suicide prevention, just don't seem to understand that Autistic people have that same need for support as non-autistic people. And, you know, that's one of the barriers, as well as is just, if they know the Autistic person is Autistic. They don't give them the suicide questions to, you know, assess their crisis. There's that and then if they do know, and they have an Autistic person that they're supporting for a suicidal crisis, suicidal intent, or just, you know, suicidal ideation, thoughts and ideas, the communication is becomes difficult, and there can be a lot of unintentional harm that happens by well-meaning people who are supporting Autistic people, and that there are unique risk factors that there are considerations to take when using the warning signs of the general public, that Autistic people present differently in crisis situations. There's a lot of things that people need to know, to support an Autistic person in a crisis.

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, one of those statistics that you gave me, it's a study by Cassidy et al in 2018, that 66% of newly diagnosed Autistic Adults experienced suicidal ideation and that is 17% above the general population. Can we talk about why that is? Why that why that number is as high as it is. Can you talk about that please?

Lisa Morgan 

Sure. Well, in her study, the newly diagnosed Autistic people when they're diagnosed later in life these were all adults. There's a lot to you know, it can be a relief. It can be you know; people take their new diagnosis in many different ways. But there's always some trauma there's always some grief in “Oh if I had only known so many years ago.” There's always you know, stories about being fired about having relationship difficulties, lifelong, up to that point, wherever they are, when they get diagnosed, and that's a lot to live. That's a lot to have the inside of yourself. Be dealing with all the time.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. And chances are that you know, when I was doing my show with Becca Lory Hector and Carole Jean Whittington and Scott Frasard. I know Carole spoke of that she had had suicidal ideation ever since she was six, you know, but it wasn't until she, she got that she was identified that she understood why she always felt like she was in terrible burnout. You know, and so, um, you know, and I like to say that once were identified, as Autistics, especially at late identified, there is that sense that your entire life history has been rewritten. And your kind of brought face to face with why you did certain things. And sometimes, the reason why definitely isn't comforting.

Lisa Morgan 

Right. And I mean, I would love for everybody to understand that, you know, most likely in the moment with what they knew, they made the best decision, and they did the best that they could in that moment. But then hindsight can be a terrible thing, because then when you know what, you know, later, and you're like, “Oh, this is the way I should have done it.” And we're hard enough on ourselves, usually, anyway, you know, that can really cause someone to, you know, just feel terrible about what they what they've done in the past. But I'm sure that you know, in the moment, and I have those same things in my past, where I can go back and say, you know, “I really did the best I could with what I had with the knowledge that I had with the experience that I had, but the understanding that I had, in that moment, that's why I do what I did.” There's also things where we, you know, can look back and say, “I probably would have done the same exact thing, right now, because I'm Autistic. And that's just the way I think and experience the world. And will continue to, you know, I'm continually misunderstood, even by people who know, I'm Autistic.” It's better, you know, and I don't get as much judgment, and I don't get as much relationship problems, because they understand now, but I still do the same things that used to get me You know, I don't want to say in trouble, but having, you know, a difficult situation in the past.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Yes. And, you know, when we were talking about Self-Care After Autistic Identification, one of the things I mentioned is the fact that I went through a really difficult grief process after I was diagnosed. Because I realized a career that I had loved and done for years, it wasn't going to come back. You know that I had to set a new a new course for my life. And I also then understood why there were certain relationships that just were not going to get revived. And, you know, I remember a few years ago attending a workshop about suicide prevention for Autistics. And among those things was that reasons was because, you know, Autistics may not have the wide circle of friends might not have the wide circle of supports. We know that we have difficulties maintaining jobs. We know that a lot of us live in poverty. You know, there's all these things going on in life that really makes life complicated. And you know, Carole Jean Whittington said, you know, some, when we're at this place, we just need things to stop. But then they don’t often stop, they just keep going. And so, I think it's, I think that's an accurate thing to say, what do you think?

Lisa Morgan 

Yes, because it does, you know, there are days where, yeah, it's one thing after another. And these are things that have to do with executive functioning, you know, double booking a presentation or putting, you know, the wrong time zone in or, you know, just forgetting to pay a bill and, you know, just so many things, you know, having a miscommunication with somebody, and it can really pile up. And it just really does feel like, you know, can everything just stop for a second?

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah. And you know, and it can be so difficult to find room to breathe between things, you know, let alone you know, tried to solve one problem or the other because they're all together in one space and a lot of us Autistics. When we find ourselves in a place of where multiple choices and multiple things are in front of us, we freeze.

Lisa Morgan

Yes, and most likely, you know, that's just what's going on in our environment. Most likely, there's a lot of things going on internally. So, we may be ruminating on something that did happen in our past. We may in your thinking about that, and it's going on in the background while all these things are going on in real, you know, in real life in your environment. So, it's like a double whammy sometimes where your mind is just as active as what's going on in in your life.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, um my good friend Dr. Scott Frasard had something to say, a few weeks ago, that I think we need to give some attention to. Because Scott Frasard, has worked as a paramedic in his history. And he saw a lot of a lot of suicide situations that did not end happily. And his thought was, you know, when we talk about suicide prevention, we often talk about preventing suicide. But his point was, what are we doing, as a society that makes people feel this way? You know, why are we not talking about changing that? I think he's got a good point. What do you think?

Lisa Morgan

I think it's a very good point. I think it's a very good point, because Autistic people, even though more and more is being discovered about Autism through research more and more is being known, you know, by just people in general about Autism. And with more and more people being diagnosed and educating themselves about their diagnosis. We're still not accepted by society in a way that we can be our Autistic selves. And so, we have to mask we still have to camouflage, you know, we still have to suppress our Autism, Autistic traits, if we want to keep that job, have that relationship or friendship, or just be accepted. So yeah, there's still a lot of work to be done. And if we could, you know, tackle thwarted belonging, which is a unique risk of suicide for Autistic people. If we can tackle social communication difficulties, unmet needs, unmet support needs, you know, just being diagnosed later in life, because nobody can pick up nobody, you know, had picked up on it. If we can address those things, too. That would stop a lot of the angst and you know the reasons why people get into that situation.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah. 

Following this next commercial break, Lisa and I will talk about answering one of the participants of the survey earlier in July. We will also talk about what thwarted belonging is and what resources Lisa recommends to help Autistics turn back from suicidal ideation.

Commercial Break II

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Segment 3

Philip King-Lowe

I'm so glad you're here, because when we were talking a couple of weeks ago, we had this, I had a survey that I did. And I had asked a question, “Has your life gotten better or worse?” And a reminder to my audience, all of my respondents were anonymous. So, there's no name to mention here. But the question was, “Has your life gotten better or worse?” and this one, one respondent wrote, "My life is so much worse, I have lost my job. Although it's taken 10 years of persistent bullying, and micromanaging to get me this far. My friends set me boundaries. I can't maintain, then I get the blame for being too needy, oversensitive, etc., I am alone. And I have no reason to continue to exist." We know that this is not the first Autistic people and problem person, excuse me, and probably will not be the last Autistic person who feels that way. Right! What? How should we respond to something like that? I mean, what would you say to someone who says that?

Lisa Morgan

I would first of all, definitely validate their feelings, and validate their experiences and what they've gone through for those past 10 years and what they're going through now with their friends misunderstanding. And, you know, judging and things, I would definitely validate what he's going through. And then, you know, try to do some regulation, some self-care. And then, when he's when he's ready to, there's a resource out there now, called Reasons for Living. It's for Autistic Adults to use themselves if they don't have anybody to help them to build it and develop it. But there's resource Reasons for Living that will help somebody build that list. And I would really try to work on your finding other reasons for him to live and have that list. It really helped me a lot. I someone helped me to develop a list I was I didn't even buy into it at the time. But I did use it. And it helped me a lot helped me get through some trying times. So, I would try to do that with him. And but I mean, first of all, definitely validating his feelings. So many Autistic people are invalidated, which is, I really want to do some research on this. But I really do think that that is a big part of the thwarted belonging, the and I believe it is, in itself a risk factor is that there's no research. Yeah. Just from experience.

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, um, you know, there are people who have lost jobs, there are people who, you know, upon telling the person they're dating, that they're Autistic, the person they're dating has left, or broken up the relationship. You know, when I was first diagnosed, I had many friends who told me, I understand, and then lo and behold, no, they didn't, you know, that sort of thing. I went through those things, those things are painful, they're very difficult to go through. And I feel like it's so difficult to really explain to someone who is not Autistic who, who doesn't have not only the knowledge or understanding or even the, the sense of that, you know, everybody's just a little bit different, including our, our brains are different. That there's no way to really help someone understand what someone might be going through, because how we communicate it is going to be very different. And you know, and there's also the people, I don't agree with you, it's about your opinion, versus what we're actually going through, which happens to be our fact. You know, what, can you shine some light on stuff like that for us?

Lisa Morgan

Well, there's, there's also people who say that what you're going through isn't that bad. Yeah. And that, I mean, that in itself, and everything that you just mentioned, that's thwarted belonging, that's, invalidation. And, yeah, I've gone through it too myself with friends who say they understand Autism, and then, you know, tell me that I'm just, you know, I'm just shy, and I just need to shake it off or something. Been fired before, you know, just because I didn't get along with colleagues, my teaching was fine. I was told it was just because I couldn't get along with colleagues who were very difficult for me to get along with.  Something that I experienced myself, and I've actually heard other people experience it as well, is when you get into having those thoughts, and you get into your thinking that you don't want to live anymore, or, you know, you can't do it anymore, you can't stay in the place that you're in anymore. It just feels like you know, you're at the end of a rope, for lack of better words. They don't recognize it as suicidal ideation all the time. And so, so they don't even know that they are in trouble in that way. And if somebody shared with me that when they Googled what how they were feeling, the crisis line came up. So, then they knew, and they knew to oh, I guess I'm at a point where I really need to possibly get some support. But Autistic people, you know, they, they don't always recognize their emotions to the point where they could say, I am in a suicidal crisis, even if they are thinking those thoughts.

Philip King-Lowe 

One of the things I think would very much help us, Lisa, can we explain what suicidal ideation means?

Lisa Morgan 

Yes, suicidal ideation is sort of an umbrella for suicidal ideas, suicidal thoughts, even suicidal intent. And going moving into even plans. It's like an umbrella word for all of those things.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Yeah. And so basically, it's, it can be one thing leading to the other until, until they feel like there's no other way out. So, does that sound right?

Lisa Morgan 

Right. Yeah. Okay. So, in my, you know, my experience, I started thinking of something that actually made me feel a little more peaceful about the situation I was going through. And I never recognized it as suicidal ideation, either. I never recognized it as suicidal thoughts. I had; it was actually a plan. And I didn't recognize it. To me, it was just, you know, something that would make everything go away. And that's what my focus was, was, you know, to make everything go away. And I kept thinking about it. And I kept ruminating and sort of, you know, solidifying the plan. And then I moved, and I no longer had, the plan would not be able to be done in the place that I moved, and I became in crisis, because I no longer could think about it in the same way. And didn't recognize those thoughts, though, as suicidal ideation, it was just purely thoughts of getting me out of the situation I was in.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, let's now talk about what steps should Autistic Adults in our supporters take to advocate for the needs of Autistic Adults who experience suicidal ideation? And what can we do to help Autistic Adults prevent suicidal ideation to, and/or if you will, to move away from those things and try to find some help. And I, you know, I know you do autism crisis support. And I think it's a wonderful thing to be doing. So, you do this sort of thing on a regular basis. So go ahead, talk about some of that, please.

Lisa Morgan

Well, I guess first thing that I would like to say is that when you mentioned get help, people don't understand that even if somebody has access to a mental health facility, they have, you know, access to a crisis line. And while everybody does, that does not always mean that the Autistic person is going to be helped, because of the difference in communication, and the unintentional harm that may come from well-meaning providers who are actually supporting them in a non-Autistic way. So, you know, the help has to be helped that understands what living with Autism is like. Right! So, we don't have a lot of that out there. There are resources on my website, though, that explain how to support an Autistic person. There's were work, we just released the Reasons for Living one, and we're now working on one. It's actually now The Autism and Suicide Prevention Work Group. We're working on an Autistic Adult Specific Resource. So, it's for Autistic Adults, other people may use it as well, but it's for Autistic Adults to be able to have support when they call 988. In your what can they you know, it's going to have what can they say, to get the support they need, you know, when what's going to happen on the call, just different things like that. Because a lot of Autistic people don't have support when they call crisis lines, unfortunately, and that's been my experience as well. But anybody who can help with the communication, help with the knowledge of the unique risk factors, help with the considerations to take when using the warning signs of the general public. Use any resources out there that have been written by Autistic lead groups, and Autistic people who, you know, just understand what it all feels like and what it all is, you know what the needs are. So, you just acknowledged and using the resources that are there now getting out there, sharing the resources would be, you know, also helpful.

Philip King-Lowe 

If you were to suggest training for crisis support folks to help Autistic Adult, maybe you've already answered this question, if you have, you can say so. But, you know, how can crisis support be trained? What are some things that they're missing? What do you think is going on there?

Lisa Morgan 

Well, I actually do trainings. Exactly for those people who support Autistic people. And I am surprised at the fact that they don't understand that Autistic people have strengths and Autistic strengths. So, for example, if they find out the person, they're supporting is rule based, they can use that to not only, you know, make a safety plan, but also to use it regularly and know and make rules. And that person will, if they're rule based, you know, that's a strength that they can use. If they’re, you know, honest to a fault. That is, you know, a very helpful safety plan. Very helpful for building a safety plan because they're going to be very honest. If they are, you know, fair if they are, you know, creative problem solver, critical thinker, you know, just use all those strengths, they, the people that I give presentations to, sometimes, when I set that question out to the audience, you know, what are Autistic strengths? It's crickets, is there's no, you know, there's very few answers, they get stuck on that. And then to understand that, and this is so, so important to understand that an Autistic person presenting as you know, in a crisis will not, may not and mostly may not look like a near non autistic person in crisis. So, for example, an Autistic person in crisis may go inward, and look perfectly calm on the outside, and say they're in a crisis, and people don't believe them. And if they know, they're Autistic, and they say they're in a crisis, and they look perfectly fine, their words have to have much more weight than their presentation. And then they may go in such a such a crisis, they lose the ability to speak, or communicate. And then people need to know, to, you know, use emojis, use drawings, you know, talk about something else until they're regulated, and they can go back and talk about, you know, whatever they're in a crisis about, but it's very different to support an Autistic person who was in a crisis, for many reasons, and those are some of them.

Philip King-Lowe 

And it's so important that the crisis person, not question whether they're legitimately Autistic. Because it's important that they don't say, well, you're too high functioning, or, you know, it's one of those things where the information that is out there, again, there's misinformation, but then there's, there's this wall of opinions, and many of them, not, not good opinions, I'll say that. But, you know, like, I know, I know, somebody, they went to a doctor to try to seek help for problem and they wound up defending themselves as Autistic for over an hour, you know, what I mean? So, I mean, that's also part of the problem.

Lisa Morgan 

And that shows such a lack of understanding because research has shown over pretty much over and over again, that the, the people in the highest risk of suicide, who are Autistic are people who have, you know, that can live independently that can hold on to a job that can get a college education. You know, they don't have an intellectual disability. Those are the people who understand more that they don't belong in society. You know, they're out there trying to get a college education and it's very difficult and they're misunderstood, and they get to a job and then it's difficult and they're misunderstood. And, you know, there's difficulties in relationships and, you know, executive functioning. And, you know, a lot of my clients are college, you know, students, professors, they're people in high paying jobs that, you know, they, those are, those are the people that need help and assistance in support of, you know, suicide prevention.

Philip King-Lowe 

And in many of those cases, I'm willing to guess, that there are a fair number of those who have been physically, mentally, or even sexually abused. Also, individuals who have been gaslighted to death somewhat literally, but you know, and, and for many Autistics you know, we've clung on to things, believing, hoping that it's gonna turnaround from us, and it doesn't, it just gets worse. I'm sure you meet situations like that. A lot of the time.

Lisa Morgan

Yes, there is no real research again on this but a lot more people. There's, there's just, there's just a lot more PTSD, in the Autism community that people think there are or people you know, are diagnosed for. Because of, you know, growing up without knowing you are Autistic, and everything that went through that, you know, being bullied, not belonging, not know how to make a friend, knowing you're different, not knowing why all those things, chronic, chronically years, decades, sometimes. You know, they lead to PTSD.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes, they do. And I mean, and if that's not, if that's not part of the problem, it's seeking supports they need, there's a lot of loopholes to go through to actually find support needs. And when you need your rent paid, or you're going to go homeless, or you need your paycheck, and someone's cutting it off, because they decided not to continue to employ you, that only makes the crisis situation worse, it doesn't make it better.

Lisa Morgan 

Absolutely. And working with paperwork can be really difficult sometimes for Autistic people. And to the point where, you know, that may put them in a crisis. Absolutely understanding what are you know, what is this question even asking? You know, and having, whether you get supported or not dependent on whether you can fill out this form or not, or, you know, having those conversations where people are using acronyms, and you're supposed to, to know, and those social nuances of, you know, social workers, and it's just trying to get those, you know, needs met is very difficult. And that is a unique risk factor of, of suicide for Autistic people is unmet support needs.

Philip King-Lowe 

Definitely, I mean, I use a waiver service here. And I went through a couple of years where I was working with people doing intakes on me that would ask the most craziest questions. One of which was, "I understand you've got a history of Autism." I'm like, "No, I don't have a history of Autism. I am Autistic even now." So, you know, I mean, it's questions like that, that can be so challenging for an Autistic because we have to actually explain ourselves, you know?

Lisa Morgan. 

Absolutely, And I'm gonna, you know, I'm getting my I'm getting a master's degree in social work. And my, you know, one of my main problems is understanding the directions of the assignments. They are not clear. Yeah. Yeah. So, I have actually done the wrong assignment and gotten zero points and have been fully capable of doing the assignment if I understood the directions.

Philip King-Lowe 

Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I've had my interactions with case managers and case workers, where I've asked a question, and they'll answer it, however they do. And I'm like, Well, no, I'm sorry. But that doesn't really make sense to me. You know, sometimes you're looking for an answer a specific answer. And what they give you is a generalization rather than the specifics. And the more you try to look for specifics, the more general they get, they don't get more specific, they get more general on you. You know?

Lisa Morgan 

Yes. And, and that's more difficult. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, just having just going to a place to get support, and having somebody ask you, well, you know, what's wrong? You know, or how are you? Or those vague questions? Even getting to that part is difficult for an Autistic person because you don't, what do you answer like, how am I today? How am I How am I this minute? How am I just, you know, what did I came in here for? Or, you know, I mean, there's just so many different ways to answer a vague question. And they don't always know what to say. And it's a social skill, you know, social communication.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Well, one of the skills that I have learned for myself that can be helpful is that when someone will ask me an open-ended question, I will say, I said, I really don't interpret open ended questions. Can you ask that question in a different way? And sometimes they'll have to think a little bit harder about that. But I'm like, if you give me if you say to me, how are you today? I'm, I'm probably going to freeze because I don't know what you're asking for. You know, exactly. But you know, or, you know, or how can I help you? And, you know, again, I'm someone who, I don't know what to tell you, you know? So sometimes I will say, Can you give me maybe some examples of some things you might be able to do to help me so that I will know how to ask you for what I'm here for?

Lisa Morgan 

That's a great way to do it. That's a great way to do it. And, you know, I will what you said before freeze when somebody asked me a question like that, because it I mean, I think it looks like I'm freezing. But in my mind, I'm going through all the possibilities. Exactly why I ended up not saying anything.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Yeah. Those possibilities are racing through your mind. Yes. And you don't know which one to catch first, you know, or which one will probably make sense. And of course, oftentimes, we're thinking, well, if I say that, they're probably going to tell me no. So, you know, it's like, we're kind of looking for the one that we can test run. I said, I think it's like a test run. You know, and yeah, so I mean, our communications is more than half our battles. And sometimes, you know, when we put out information and get some of the replies, we get everything from, quite frankly, insulting our intelligence, thinking we don't have any. Or that, you know, we're asking him a question, or somebody just suggests we don't know what we're talking about. I mean, these things can be very stressful. And when, you know, life is stressful, like I say, you're about to lose your home, you're about to, you know, lose, lose a job, or you need a resource to help you find stuff. Those questions can be so very difficult. And it's moments like that, then an Autistic person can feel squeezed between what they've got coming and what they're seeking, and not feeling like they're finding anything to get them out. And so sometimes that suicidal ideation is just, I feel trapped. I don't know how to get out.

Lisa Morgan

And then lots of times, they go to these places, like I finally had somebody who sort of talked me into going to a place to get support when I was struggling, and, you know, and had suicidal ideation. And I went in there, and I cried before going in the door, it was so hard for me to walk in there. I had never done it before. And when I went in there and finally got in front of the person who was supposed to be supporting me. She asked me what was going on? I told her, and she laughed. You know, I don't even know what I said that was funny. There was nothing funny about what was going on in my life that the time. I got up, and I left. And that was it for me. I don't know how I still do not know what happened in that meeting.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, well, Sara Swan, my good friend here, she's Looking Forward Life Coaching, you know, they, she has gone with some of her clients to over to the county to start paperwork and everything like that. And she has heard some of the horrible things that people have said to, you know, to them, and that's one of the reasons she'll have people go with them is so that they can kind of talk on their behalf a little bit. You know, and but again, the red tape to get services like this, it's difficult, it's more difficult than it really should be. And, you know, like I say, finding the training and the expertise or even close to the expertise. You know, I, I make it a point I understand that if I go to a doctor, okay, I'm probably going to have to explain to them why my hip pain is a little bit more intense for me. Because I'm hypersensitive to that pain. But you know, I Yeah, and then it

Lisa Morgan

You might be believed, and you might not be believed.

Philip King-Lowe 

Exactly, yeah.

After this final commercial break, Lisa will talk about why you should ask an Autistic if they are thinking of hurting and/or killing themselves, rather than avoid the subject.  After the conclusion of the conversation, Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board. 

Commercial Break III

Future Shows

Dr. Devon Price returns to Today’s Autistic Moment on September 17th for the episode Conflict Resolution. Autistic Adults face more conflict than just about any group of people. Our challenges with verbal and nonverbal communication, finding our social support networks, and the stigmas imposed by our disabilities can burn us out.  If the conflicts we have with others doesn’t weigh us down, our interior conflict with ourselves most certainly will. Autistics need strategies for conflict resolution.  Join my guest Dr. Devon Price and I to help us understand where our conflicts come from, and how we can work towards resolving them.

The title and description of the show on October 1^st has been changed.  Dr. Nick Walker the author of Neuroqueer Heresies: Notes on the Neurodiversity Paradigm, Autistic Empowerment, and Postnormal Possibilities, joins me for Neuroqueering: Time for Action.  According to Dr. Walker, Neuroqueer is a verb that urges us to make the decision that Autistics and other Neurodivergents will accept ourselves for who we are and not try to fit in with what the world determines is a “normal brain” vs. a “different brain.”  Dr. Walker will bring her perspective to the conversations about Neurodiversity, sexual orientation and gender identity that will challenge us to rethink about how we understand and act.

Pete Wharmby will join me on October 15^th for An Untypical Worldview.  Pete’s latest book is Untypical: How the World Isn’t Built for Autistic People and What We Should All Do About It.  Listen to this quote from Pete’s book.  “Imagine a world where people can say ‘Oh, do you mind if we don’t shake hands?  I’m Autistic, you see,’ and be acknowledged and treated as an equal.”  What are some other ways that an untypical world would look like?  Join Pete Wharmby and I as we talk about his book and ideas.

Check out the Future Shows page on todaysautisticmoment.com for all shows coming up through November.

Do you have any topic ideas for future episodes of Today’s Autistic Moment?  Go to the Contact Us page on todaysautisticmoment.com and submit your topic suggestions.  Go to the page for Be My Guest to submit a Guest Intake Form if you would like to be a guest.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 3

Philip King-Lowe 

You spoke of some resources of your own. And I really do want to suggest that my audience goes to autismcrisissupport.com. But there are resources out there that can help. And you named a few, do you have any more resources that you might like to suggest that people research?

Lisa Morgan

Well, if they want to find out about Autism and suicide, like in general, there's a policy brief from Latrobe in Australia that they could Google and or I could even give you the link, if you want to put it out there. It's a very good, there's a, there's a small one to three pages long. And then there's one that's 25 or 30 pages long. That can tell you a lot. It was the very first autism and suicide conference in the world, where it was just focused on autism and suicide. And then there was a roundtable discussion afterwards, I did the policy brief. And then, as far as other resources, like if you go to the American Foundation of suicide prevention, or the Suicide Prevention Resource Center, fortunately, a couple of our resources are on the Suicide Resource Prevention Center. But when you when you look at populations, you're not going to find Autistic or Autism. We're working on that 988 working on trying to get, you know, some Autism resources in there. So, I don't really know of any other ones besides the ones that are on the website.

Philip King-Lowe 

Okay, that's fine. Yeah, well, we it's an important place to start. But, Lisa, I want to thank you so much for coming on today. And having this conversation with us. We know that Suicide Prevention Month is a month of a lot of conversations in sharing the one 800 numbers left and right. But when it comes to Autistics, we're lacking so much information, we're lacking resources. And it's it can be for various reasons. But, you know, I think it's so important that we, we have this conversation today. So, thank you so much for being here. And all the work that you do.

Lisa Morgan

Well, thank you for inviting me. I'm glad that we were able to do this. I totally agree with you. I just want to leave a couple of points is that please believe any Autistic person about how they present if they say that being suicidal, and also it doesn't cause somebody to have suicidal thoughts if you ask them, if they're going to hurt harm themselves, or if they're thinking of killing themselves, as research has shown that doesn't put that idea in their head, it actually opens a conversation that they may not know how to open themselves.

Philip King-Lowe 

So, your advice is to go ahead and ask them a question like that?

Lisa Morgan

Yes. And research has shown that that is it doesn't put the idea in their head, which is a lot of people are afraid to bring the subject up because it might put the idea in a person's head and thoughts, but it doesn't research has shown it is not and it's really good too. If you're concerned for somebody to ask them if they're thinking about harming or killing themselves, because that may open a conversation that they don't know how to open or are afraid to open.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, again, Lisa, thank you so much for being here today. And I look forward to talking to you again soon.

Lisa Morgan 

Okay, that'd be wonderful. Thanks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All of these events with their links can be found at todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard

Join The Autism Society of Minnesota for their Adult Coffee Club.  The next Coffee Clubs will be on Tuesday nights from 5pm to 7pm at Dogwood Coffee in St. Paul on September 12^th, September 26^th, October 10^th, October 24^th, and November 21st.  Coffee Club meetings will be at the Milkweed Café in Minneapolis on September 18^th, October 16^th, and November 13^th from 5pm to 7pm. Please RSVP at ausm.org.

Understanding Autism virtual classes will be offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. These classes are perfect for Autistic individuals, caregivers, those who want to understand the basics of Autism and support Autistic people. Classes will be on October 23^rd, 6-8pm and December 18^th, 10am-12pm.  Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

Registration is now open for the Autistic Community Summit that will be on October 14^th beginning at 9am to 4pm at the Lionsgate Academy in Shoreview, Minnesota.  There will be a full hybrid of in person and virtual options, integrated social opportunities, half hour and full hour breakout sessions, and discussion groups.  The cost to attend is $35.00 per person and scholarships are available.  Click on the link to register on the bulletin board page for todaysautisticmoment.com or go to ausm.org.  

Go to ausm.org to download the 2023-2024 Education Catalog with the details of all the educational and social opportunities offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota today.

MN MNeurodivergent is a Minnesota organization that offers social events for Neurodivergents.  Join them on Friday, September 15^th at 6:00pm for Friday Night Speed Friending at the Phalen Picnic Shelter in St. Paul. Join them on Saturday, September 16^th at 1:00pm at the Minnesota Transportation Museum at the Jackson Street Roundhouse.  Go to the bulletin board at todaysautisticmoment.com and click on the Meet Up link to become a member and attend their events.

You are invited to Minnesota Independence College & Communities’ 6^th Annual Independence 5K Run/1 Mile Walk on Sunday, October 1^st at Donaldson Park in Richfield, Minnesota.  Check in/Registration will be at 9:00am. The race/walk will begin at 10:00am.  Go to miccommunity.org for more information.

Matthew the #ActuallyAutistic Coach has room in his Finding Your Autistic Self Group Coaching Groups. In the groups, participants learn about unmasking strategies, coping tools, burnout & post-burnout support and much more. Go to autisticcoach.com and click on Autism Groups for more information. While visiting Matthew’s website, be sure to check out the Free Autistic Discussion Circles for Autistics of various age groups, careers, students, and ethnic groups. 

Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored in part by Looking Forward Life Coaching.  Looking Forward turns stumbling blocks into stepping stones towards success.  Go to lookingforwardlc.org for more information.

Today’s Autistic Moment is here because of the generosity of the supporters and sponsors.  Please join the supporters by clicking on Support Today’s Autistic Moment on todaysautisticmoment.com.  If you work for a company and/or organization that supports Autistic Adults and the movement for Neurodiversity, I would love to have you sponsor ads on the show.

If you would like to sponsor an ad or have questions about Today’s Autistic Moment, please send an email to todaysautisticmoment@gmail.com.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

May you have an Autistically Amazing day.