Transcript

Self-Care: Surviving Disheartening Rhetoric

July 21st, 2024

Segment 1

Welcome everyone to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by an Autistic Adult. My name is Philip King-Lowe. I am the owner, producer, and host; and I am an Autistic Adult. Thank you so very much for listening.

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Thank you for joining me for Self-Care: Surviving Disheartening Rhetoric. Dr. Devon Price will be my guest in segment 2.

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Autistics and our intersectional communities read and hear disheartening rhetoric all throughout our lives. In recent years the rhetoric that is discouraging has intensified because it has become socially acceptable to leave the most horrible comments on social media posts. The rhetoric gets worse when we watch or listen to the political commentary news media that repeats itself throughout the day on any number of platforms. One moment we hear something that is encouraging. The next moment we hear or read something that makes us angry, sad, and frightened. What you need to keep in mind is that social media and cable news network’s repeats everything to keep your eyes glued to them, to affect you so that you keep watching. The networks get paid money for every minute that you read, watch, listen, or click on any news story.

On this episode, Dr. Devon Price and I are here to tell you that you can survive the disheartening rhetoric by taking care of yourself first. You don’t have to legitimize everything you hear or read by devoting your free time and energy to the causes. One important part of self-care is to give yourself permission to turn it all off. Delete the emails. Unsubscribe from the senders. Mark them as spam. Dr. Devon Price will explain how the rhetoric harms us, and that can’t solve every problem we hear by ourselves. We need to give ourselves time to engage in Autistic play. Find and talk with other Autistic and Neurodivergent people who share our concerns to recharge. Dr. Devon Price and I will talk about how we can build up our strengths to survive the rhetoric to continue on by looking after our own needs.

After this first commercial break, join Dr. Devon Price and I as we discuss Self-Care: Surviving Disheartening Rhetoric.

Commercial Break I

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Segment 2

Philip King-Lowe

Dr. Devon Price, welcome back to Today's Autistic Moment. I am always so grateful when you take time to spend with us talking about important topics. So welcome back.

Devon Price

Hi, yeah, thank you for having me again, Philip.

Philip King-Lowe

You're welcome. You're welcome. Well, I've been thinking a lot about we’re now in July and the campaigns are heating up to the boiling point, and they will even get even hotter. The closer we move to election day; they will get really difficult. They will be even those normal conversations that we often have or hear that are that do affect us traumatically in many ways. Those are going to intensify and because there are campaigns to be won and campaigns to be lost. But you know, and often, a lot of intersectional communities, including, but not limited to the Autistic community and a lot of our intersectional communities, we are often targeted by a lot of that rhetoric. And so, as part of my Summer of Self-Care Series this year, I want us to talk about Self-Care: Surviving Disheartening Rhetoric. So, where can we begin to explore this topic of self-care by surviving disheartening rhetoric? Let us talk a little bit about how that disheartening rhetoric affects us, and let's talk a little bit about how we can do the self-care. So go ahead.

Devon Price

Sure, yeah, I guess I'll first talk about how these things affect me, in service of talking about how it seems to affect a lot of Neurodivergent people and a lot of marginalized people. Both people that I know and just things that I've heard online, seen in research and all of all of that. I know that for a long time, I used to put a very high burden on myself to remain informed about every single minute development in the kind of horse race, if you will, of political competitions, and you know, following every debate, following every poll result, and a lot of that information ends up not being very predictive or very useful. There's more data out there than any one person can ever reasonably keep track of. And for better or for worse, a lot of information that you take in, if you are just constantly consuming the news and the latest updates in politics, is going to be information that isn't going to last or remain relevant. Somebody's not going to be in the race anymore. Some fact is going to be disproven. Some poll is going to be revealed to have really bad methodology this. These kinds of things happen all of the time. And so for me, one of the big, biggest barriers has been realizing that it's not some abnegation of duty to say I'm going to check in however often I can check in in a way that's empowering for me and useful for me, that's going to help me actually make decisions that are going to impact my community and my behavior in a useful way, versus making myself absolutely sick with information overload and panic, and that is something that I certainly see a lot of Neurodivergent people suffering from. We are exposed to more information and news updates than any other generation of human beings before. Everything is constantly changing, as the title of this series mentions. There's lots of damaging rhetoric that gets involved. In that, and it's just too much for people to be exposed to on a constant stream. It's not empowering and useful to agitate oneself that much. And so, what I find, I think, especially for Neurodivergent people, is learning how to set boundaries and also finding the reassure, reassurance that it's okay to set those boundaries, that it doesn't make you irresponsible, or it doesn't mean that you don't care, that seems to that kind of guilt is something that a lot of us struggle with.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah, and social media has created echo chamber after echo chamber, and now that news is really bought and sold by those who see things one way versus those who see things the other way. And it can get so overwhelming. I remember many years ago, I used to read all the political blogs about what people were saying towards LGBTQ people, and I got to a place where I was so angry all the time, I just said, I need to turn this stuff off. I just need to turn it off, because it's not helping me. It's only infuriating me and really draining my self-energy. And sometimes we have to realize just how much hearing these things, reading these things, and as I just said, with social media, everything is coming at over 150 miles an hour, with everything switching from one to the other. I mean, it's really difficult with all these things happening. And so, the first point of self-care is turn it off, if you must. You don't have to listen to absolutely everything you know. And of course, if that's one of those things that simulates you, good for you. But the fact is that our human brain can only take in so much. So please continue.

Devon Price

Yeah, I think especially when it comes to attacks on trans people, attacks on the LGBTQ community in general, it really can be very gutting of your self-concept and self-esteem to even just consume that stuff all of the time. I used to think that I was locked into this valiant battle for my community's rights, and that meant that I needed to know every single fight that was happening in every state, every city, everything that was, you know, in the courts, all of it, and that I needed to stay vigilant. But I know that for me, it really started to get to me, that I would start thinking more transphobic things about myself, even just hearing that many people out in the world saying and believing those kinds of things and enacting them into legislation. And we do see that in research, even that in states where, you know, gay marriage bans passed in the early 2000s that was linked really strongly to an increased risk of suicide for queer people living in those states. And we see the same thing with trans kids now and trans adults in states where that kind of legislation, where that kind of legislation is passing. So, there's a very real toll to it. We have to make sure that we take care to surround ourselves with our people and our community spaces. At the time that we're recording this, it's still Pride Month, and that can be a very rejuvenating time, and it can also be a very difficult time thinking and mourning and remembering all that we've lost and all that we fought for and the people that aren't still with us. I think it's really important if you care about political issues, if they touch your life, you can't just be in survival mode all the time and waging a battle. You also need to do what you can to take care of your community right around you and to cultivate those connections so that you feel strong enough to continue fighting, and so that you still remember that who you are is okay, because it can get really easy for those messages to get into your brain and really affect how you think about yourself.

Philip King-Lowe

Yes, and I was in a conference quite a few years ago where they made a point that when there are these campaigns against people of color, against, you know, LGBTQ people and all of these, these posts that still promote cures for Autism and why drugs are needed to deal with sensory processing and various other things. That internalizing those messages, internalizing homophobia, internalizing transphobia, internalizing the sense that there's still something wrong with me if I'm disabled or Autistic or anything else. Those are pretty much unavoidable consequences. Because we're hearing those negative messages, those disheartening messages about us, and it really can affect us, which is why we need conversations like this one about, how do we survive that? Especially as I say, it's coming at us 155 miles an hour or more. Go ahead.

Devon Price

Yeah, I think we're also now exposed to really guilting messages that tell us that we constantly need to be paying attention. On social media, there are a lot of people who are understandably very concerned, very freaked out by everything that's happening throughout the country and throughout the world, who will post things like if you're not paying attention, that means you don't care if you're not anxious then or you're not worried, then you're not paying attention. Don't look away from this. Those kinds of messages over and over again. And I think Autistic people, we tend to take those messages very literally and feel that we are being irresponsible if we don't feel anxious and worried and aren't attending to this upsetting information every single day for hours per day, and I know it certainly affects other Neurodivergent groups too. So, people with OCD, for example, tend to be really sensitive to messages online that say you need to be looking at this news. You need to be looking at this gruesome war zone footage. You need to be making yourself upset all of the time, otherwise you don't care. And the truth is that's not how it works. Be aware of what's happening in the world, certainly, but you don't need to see every minute detail if that's going to freeze you up and make it impossible for you to take any kind of action or to even look after yourself. It's really important for us as disabled people to look after ourselves and our communities, our close loved ones, most of whom are themselves, also disabled, so that we can have even the strength to fight some of these things politically. And if we just completely obliterate our ability to act and numb ourselves with that much trauma. It can really prevent all of that.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah, and let's also reiterate something that was said at a show a few years ago, that the whole purpose of posting these things is to catch your eye. Is to catch your attention. It's deliberate. It's in, you know, the media, media folks, they get their money off of eyeballs looking, reading and people reacting, and it's almost impossible not to because, as they say, of how much of it is coming at us. Go ahead.

Devon Price

And there's advertiser revenue to be made off of every view and click. And it's not even just the owners of major newspapers or news networks who do these things. It's also people who are political influencers, if you will, who some of them have their heart absolutely in the right place, but they still are operating in an attention economy where putting upsetting or provocative messages into people's faces and getting a ton of clicks and comments and shares and people returning to the comment section to continue having a fight or an argument every time that happens, that's more advertiser revenue, and that is going to really skew people's incentives and what kinds of messages they put out. And so, I think it's really protective for us to be skeptical of that and aware of how it works.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah, yeah. I like how we're talking about self-care starts with some awareness of what's actually going on. You know, here, I am talking about this. And my business is a media company, but my purpose is to put out information for Autistic Adults, to let them know it is absolutely essential that you take care of yourself, you know, and it is my hope that a show like mine will help you through that sort of thing. You know, and especially since a lot of the disheartening rhetoric is also being used to fundraise big time to get your money. Let's make it clear, no, you do not have to donate to them, and you know, don't let them make you feel guilty for not doing it. You are certain, you know, certainly have every right to say no, you know, or delete the email, unsubscribe, whatever you got to do. You don't have to let it, you know, overwhelm you. You know.

Devon Price

Absolutely. I think it's really important for a lot of disabled people to really develop that power of discernment. And I think it is a self-care strategy to be able to say, I'm being told I need to be doing this. I'm being guilted into doing this. Can I mentally take a step back and check in with myself and say, Do I actually agree with this person's perspective? Do I really have an obligation to donate to this particular nonprofit, donate to this particular political cause? Do I really believe that that's the best way to express my values, and is it something I can even afford to do? Most disabled people are in poverty or very close to it, and are still incredibly generous, sometimes to their last dime. Some of the people I know who are the most generous are people who are in a very precarious position. And so, it is an important element of self-care to just be able to tune out those messages for a moment, check in with yourself and say, Okay, what do I have the power to do? What can I afford to do? And where do I think that that time, energy, money, whatever it is, is best placed? And it's you can't do it all. You're not going to be everywhere. You only can choose where you are placed in the universe that can make a difference.

Philip King-Lowe

Right. Yeah, I appreciate that. And you know, part of self-care, and this can be very complicated for some of our Autistic and other Neurodivergent folks who may not be aware of how something is affecting you. We don't always recognize when something's making us angry. We may not even realize that something is making us frightened, and we may need some help to identify those things. You know, let me start by saying one of those identifiers is if you are literally, you're just getting more tired by reading things. You're finding it difficult, more difficult, maybe, to have conversations with other people, period. That can be a sign that you need to withdraw for a while. What are some of the signs that you might suggest?

Devon Price

Yeah, resentment or bitterness is often a stealthy sign of burnout or compassion fatigue. If you find yourself getting really irritated with the sheer number of, let's say, people you know who are asking for money in their GoFundMe’s or something like that, or just every new attack on marginalized people, if it just kind of makes you really irate or irritated and you just feel really impatient with it, that might mean that you're taking on too much responsibility for things that you cannot yourself fully control. I think for a lot of us who are alexithymic or don't know our emotions easily, a lot of times, we can lean on our loved ones and partners and people who live with us to help us identify some of our cues. So, I often don't notice when I've completely fallen into an internet rabbit hole and like an hour or two has passed and I'm just typing away on my phone, but the people around me definitely notice that and feel it, and sometimes they can kind of point out to me and say, Hey, is somebody making you upset? Is there something that you're fixating on here? Maybe you should step away and they can hear my fast breathing and see some of the tension in my body. A lot of those things are common for a lot of us, not by beat when it's time to take a walk, play a video game, do something that'll keep your attention focused elsewhere.

Philip King-Lowe

And another thing that I would point out is that a lot of us info dump, and a lot of us, you know, take it in as fast as it comes at us. If and maybe it's one of your special interests and one of those things that really grabs you that you talk a lot about, be aware that if you're talking about it, you know, um, let's give it an example of more than maybe 15 minutes of conversation, it's probably best that you withdraw and do something else, stim fidget or do what do, something completely different, and just let it go. We have communities of you know, our intersectional communities that are so bombarded and

we just need to take time to look after our own needs, which is exactly what we're talking about.

Devon Price

Yeah, and it can be hard sometimes to distinguish between a special interest and when your kind of self-harming with too much upsetting information. Politics used to be one of my special interests. That's why I became, originally a political psychologist, that's what I studied. And at some point, I realized, wow, this is really not good for me. I'm studying political open mindedness in one of the least open-minded eras politically in recent memory. It can be okay to feel really passionate about something and to make it your life's work, or to put a lot of energy into it. But I think if you feel a lot of urgency all of the time, and you feel like you can never peel yourself away, because it's a life and death matter, I think that's often a sign that you could work on your boundaries in some way, because the work, the political work, the advocacy work, it will still be there for you to come back to it. There will always be more to do. So, you can't decide how much effort to put in based on, is there still a problem? You can't put out every fire. So, you have to find ways to set limits on how much you're doing and how much you're taking on. And I think it also can be very helpful to identify something very small and tangible you can do in your immediate community or environment, so that you can feel that satisfaction of I made a difference for this one person, or I helped this one person understand an issue they were curious about a little bit better and just let that be enough sometimes, because you're not going to be able to save the world with your effort on your own.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah.

After this next commercial break, Dr. Price and I will take about removing yourself from the rhetoric that often happens with abusive dinner table guests and the importance of creating new families of communities that support us.

Commercial Break II

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Segment 3

Today's Autistic Moment is now in its fourth season, featuring exceptional guests like Dr. Devon Price and engaging conversations in each episode. The podcast is dedicated to serving Autistic Adults and our Intersectional Communities while remaining free from content that promotes abusive therapies, cure rhetoric, or negative pathological approaches to Autism. To maintain this integrity, advertising opportunities from organizations that dehumanize Autistic individuals have been declined. As a result, the podcast relies on generous sponsors and supporters for funding. If you'd like to contribute, please visit todaysautisticmoment.com and click on "Support Today's Autistic Moment." You can make a one-time donation through Ko-fi, you can make that one-time donation from $10 to $20 or more. Donors contributing $25 or more will receive a complimentary logo lapel pin. Alternatively, you can become a monthly supporter through Patreon and receive a free logo 16oz drinking cup. The hyperlinks are included in the transcript so they can be easily accessed. Your support helps keep Today's Autistic Moment accessible and true to its mission of exploring, engaging, and empowering our Intersectional Autistic Adult communities. You can also support the podcast by sharing it, the show or each episode on your social media networks.

Now let us continue my conversation with Dr. Devon Price.

Philip King-Lowe

You've already launched into my second question, which is, how do we engage our Intersectional Autistic Adult Communities? Normally, I talk about having conversations, and I don't want to delegitimize that, but to be engaged is to really pay attention to your self-care. You know, Becca Lory Hector, who is a self-advocate specialist, as far as I'm concerned, we always talk, you know, as I did in our last show, about how you can do your self-care. You need to do your self-care, and you need to do it your way. You know, it's important that you do that. And one person's self-care does not have to look like another person's self-care, you know. And so, what we all like to say is that, if this means turning things off, as we've already said, backing away from people. We know that right now, you and I have talked about this too, about getting up from a dinner table. But you know, it's so difficult to have conversations with other people without getting into some kind of argument or complicated conversation. I'm circling my words here. But you don't have to do that. You don't have to put yourself in those situations, you know. This is where I say some of us Autistics who like to isolate. This is probably a good thing in that regard, you know. And if you really feel like you need to do, say or about something, blog, journal, journal, whatever you got to do, but you don't always have to have a full-blown argument with someone who is obviously using some of that disheartening rhetoric with you. So go ahead and take off on some of that.

Devon Price

Yeah, I think it's really important to emphasize to Neurodivergent people a little bit about how persuasion or changing one's mind works for most people. Most people are not going to completely change how they treat you or completely change their point of view because you made a really great point in a debate with them, or because you made a really scathing comment on social media that tore apart their arguments point by point. Most people aren't persuaded by facts and evidence. This is really disheartening stuff to learn, but you know, years of political psychology research has taught me this. People are not persuaded by facts or by persuasive rhetoric. When people change their minds about a topic, it's usually because they're already motivated to in some way. Something happened that made them want to reexamine their own position. Maybe they had a queer son, for example, or something just touched their heart in to the degree where they decided to open their own mind, and persuasion takes a really long time. People don't just completely with the snap of the fingers. Go from having one point of view to having a completely different point of view, or changing how they treat people. So that means that you can give yourself permission to not fight with every person who is wrong, because more often than not, you're not going to persuade them. And even if you do influence them in some way for the better, all you're going to be doing is just planting a seed, an idea that they might decide to water one day and let grow. But you can't fix somebody else's heart or their worldview. I get this kind of question all the time from Neurodivergent people, what do I say if my family member doesn't respect my boundaries? What do I say if this relative believes in this, you know, myth about curing Autism or some political topic? There is no magic word you can say that's going to change somebody's mind. If they care and they respect you and they listen what you say will be taken to heart by them, even if you say it imperfectly. But if their mind is closed and their heart is closed at the moment, nothing you say is going to change it. And it's really frustrating, but I think it is an act of self-care to just give ourselves permission to not fight every battle and to know and to grieve sometimes that we can't convince everyone with our words to respect us and that we don't have to fight that fight.

Philip King-Lowe

No and one of the ways we can engage though, is to find our groups of people with whom we do share similar feelings about things, or the same things, that that may mean creating another social group on a social media where that's what you talk about. I have been the admin for many social media groups and that sort of thing. And the good thing about some of that is you can control who gets access to what a little more easily than maybe we used to be. But you can do that. And if you're if you're just arguing back and forth with one particular person or several people who are not feeding your passions that are actually making you more angry, turn that into a moment to share some with some people that you do share that common interest. And you may find some people giving you ideas about how to have conversations differently or what to do when something that someone says you know, really cause us harm. You know, a lot of this political rhetoric, this this disheartening rhetoric, among the things that's happening, it's, it's affecting our trauma points. It's bringing back that trauma and adding trauma to it, and that's why we need to take care of ourselves in those moments. Because, you know, we I had that great episode in May about PTSD. You know, trauma is harm. And you know, disheartening rhetoric, it harms us, and it feeds the harms that we are familiar with throughout the course of our life. Go ahead.

Devon Price

Yeah, we need to feel, I think, that we are a part of something that is meaningful and enriching and challenging in an empowering way. We can't live every moment as if we're under attack. The writer Ana Mardoll he said something really insightful in 2020. When there was the, you know, the movement for black lives and a lot of conversations about that and policing, he said, you know, yes, white people, you should talk to your family. But sometimes talk to your family doesn't literally mean your biological family, if they've been abusive to you. If they don't respect you, those aren't going to be people you're going to ever have an influence on if that's your relationship. So, talk to your family might mean talk to your chosen family. Talk to the people who do take care of you and respect you, and yes, those might be people who are already a little bit closer to you in terms of your opinion, but speaking with them is still really meaningful. We don't need to constantly be locked into a fight. Sometimes the most useful political discussions for me are just sharing with a trusted friend or loved one about different books that we've read. About history or about social issues that we care about, having some kind of kind of political learning group or book club that can be really impactful work, and it also it lets you really get some depth. Social media is very shallow. You're very bombarded with 1000s of messages. And for me, and I think for a lot of Autistic people, it can be very restorative to have some depth, to have really long, slow conversations, to read a full book, to just dwell and think and meditate on a topic for hours. That can really help kind of regulate the nervous system a little bit.

Philip King-Lowe

Our friend Eric Garcia reminded us all that that social media is the beginning of conversations, not necessarily concluding or even persuading necessarily. Social media is like a lot of things. It's just it's good points, its bad points, as does AI right now and a lot of these things. But part of its helpfulness goes in what you're putting into it, not just what you're getting from it. You know, one of the thing, one of my reminders to our Autistic communities and our intersectional communities, you know, um, one of the best ways that we can affect opinions, maybe not for the better, but we can still affect them in a way, is by telling our stories about what being Autistic, being transgender, being gay means for us as individuals. You know, sometimes talking points, they only get you so far, but an actual story of something that's actually happened to you. Now sometimes you can get people to listen to that. Sometimes you can't. They're just not going to listen, no matter how hard to try. But and that's part of where being engaged in conversations with others who share our experiences. When we tell them what's been happening to us, they understand, because they're having it happen too. You know, at the time of this recording, I'm dealing with the loss of my best friend, Jerry Conner. And Becca Lory Hector and I, we talked a lot about that, because July is Disability Pride Month. And Jerry, for me, was such an influence, because when I was going through the process of becoming disabled, he was the one person that I could talk to who understood everything I told him, you know. And he was somebody, you know, when I said, I feel like I've got eyes staring at me, wondering if I'm fleecing a system, you know. And he said, I know what you mean. And he says, I've gotten that even in a wheelchair, even though he's in a power wheelchair, he knows exactly what that's like. You know, I shared the story in the blog about Jerry that when I started using my wheelchair, I had somebody who took it upon themselves to move me past a threshold without even asking me first. They just took it upon themselves to do that. And when I told Jerry, he said, he said, you'd be surprised how many people actually do that to people in power chairs, not just manual chairs. I mean, he had people that they would be shopping in the supermarket. They need to reach something on a shelf, he'd be right there, and they just move him out of the way to get to what they want. You know, things like that ought to be things we hear. We need to hear things like that. That these things are actually happening to us. And right now, among, among the one among the reasons that I really wanted to have you on today is because gender and bodily autonomy is under major attack right now. And I'm sure you can talk about how that's affecting you and others like you as well as you know the fact that so many are Autistic. So go ahead, respond to that as you as you wish.

Devon Price

Yeah, there's a lot of fear mongering that's happening in the world about trans people, about the fear of detransition. There's a lot of fear that's pushed on parents about the prospect of their children exercising bodily autonomy, and what if the child goes on to regret it? And I think stories really are so powerful in demystifying a lot of this stuff and helping people to see trans lives as just human lives like any other. Gender transition is made out to be by a lot of the people doing this fear mongering, as if it's this catastrophic, extreme thing, and that if you ever make a change to your body or your presentation that you regret, it'll be the greatest, it'll be the greatest tragedy in all of life. And when you really gather a bunch of different trans people together of all different ages and listen to their stories. You really see how much all of our bodies are always changing. None of us, I think, especially when you include disabled people in the conversation, are fully satisfied with our bodies at all times, because we face a lot of exclusion in society and a lot of inaccessibility in society. And one of the core tenets of disability justice is that every person has the right to make a mistake, right that a lot of intellectually disabled people and Autistic people are denied any freedom because of this fear that we're incompetent. And what if we make a decision with our money or with our lives, or we marry the wrong person and we ruin our lives forever? And that same kind of fear mongering and restriction of choice is being put on trans individuals now. And the fact is, there are plenty of people who made decisions with their lives that they go on to regret. And that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have had the freedom to make those choices in the first place. You know, gay people can get married and then get divorced. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to get married. I have the right to use hormones to get surgery to change my body, and I might never be fully satisfied. Most people aren't fully satisfied with their bodies. That doesn't mean you don't have freedom over your body. It's the freedom and exercising that freedom that is the healing thing. It's not getting the perfect body. It's not looking perfectly like a cis man. It's not, you know, having the job that I want to have, like those are, those are superficial things. That's not what transition is about. It's about how this gender has been forced onto you. This narrative of who you're supposed to has been forced on you since you were a baby. And any one of us in the world should have the right to say, I don't agree with that. I'm going to try a different path. And it's that choosing a different path that is what's liberating to people. And that's just something that I always want to emphasize when we have conversations about transition, because I think even a lot of allies have the wrong idea about what it is. They think it's this born in the wrong body narrative where you just need to get your body fixed to look the right way. And that's not really what it's about. It's about it's about freedom, and that's just as essential to people who need reproductive health access in this climate and disabled people who want to not have their wheelchairs moved by other people to, you know, do whatever they need to, to feel more comfortable in their body and more free in society.

Philip King-Lowe

Let's move into my third question now that we've really explored this topic and talk about getting engaged. You know, how can we empower our Intersectional Autistic Adult Communities? And often we get engaged. You know, we said having conversations, being aware, sometimes being aware of where the opposition is coming from. In the last couple of episodes, I've spoken about where this opposition to trans folks is coming from. And I sit and what my comments were is that our society has created this foundation of male and female. What the male is supposed to do. What the female is supposed to do. And now we are telling them, and we're seeing people who are transitioning. And the thing is, is that we're now telling that we're now, basically, we're saying those foundations that were built need to be rebuilt. Need to be remodeled by an a new a new way of understanding gender. And the resistance is coming from, oh no, I don't want my foundations rebuilt or that sort of thing. And so, I mean, my intention is not to upset to trans people here. My intention is to say that's where these resistances are coming from. And since we're really, you know, talking about Autistic Adults, Neurodivergent people, people of color, this is also the resistance that you know there is supposed to be this normal and now this abnormal. And the issue is, the fact is, is we're all unique in one way or the other. Being empowered means knowing that, and being empowered means being willing to learn that maybe we were mistaken. You know? Like about race or about sexuality or gender, or even especially neuro, neurological and that sort of thing. So please go on with that and please add your comments.

Devon Price

Yeah, I think we all have internalized damaging messages about different social roles and how people are supposed to be right? So trans people can be very threatening. If all your life, you've been conditioned to believe a woman is supposed to be this, a man is supposed to be this. How I evaluate myself, even as an adult, is by asking myself whether I am behaving the way a grown woman should or the way a grown man should, and so for someone to deviate from that, it's very threatening. It's this sandcastle that you've built your whole life atop of running back into the sea. And I think the same thing is true with disability and with race that with disability, embracing and celebrating the lives of disabled people really challenges a lot of cultural beliefs about what it means to be a human being and what the worth of a human life is. Human beings lives in the moment that we're living today have been defined by the work you can do. The money you can make for someone else. The productivity you have. The strength you have. And that's how we evaluate a lot of people. That's how we evaluate ourselves. And so, when, when disabled people band together and say, No, actually, all lives have value, including lives that are never going to, “contribute a productive thing to society ever.” Again, that's that shaky feeling of, oh, the very foundations of my reality are being challenged here. If my life purpose isn't work, then what is it? And I think people find that very threatening. And the same thing can be said of race too, that race was a system of categorizing people on the basis of labor, on the basis of forced labor, of enslavement. And so, people challenging that and saying, No, that's not what being black is. I'm not ashamed to be black. I'm not lesser because I'm black and I'm not here to serve you as a black person, again, very, very threatening to the status quo. People do a lot of really violent, reprehensible things when their hold on reality feels shaky and their power structure feels threatened. And I think that's what's going on with a lot of these backlashes against, you know, Black Lives Matter, against trans people's rights, against so many other victories, including disability justice. And that's why so many of us get accused of being fakers. There's this, this idea that, Oh, we really could do more, we could work harder, we could fall into line and conform, but we're choosing not to.

Philip King-Lowe

And we're also challenging people's sense of security with how things they believe things are ought to be done. I come from a very small town in near Cape Cod, Massachusetts. My hometown of Wareham doesn't even have a mayor. They still have, “a Board of Selectmen" you know. So, I mean, in introducing changes in some of those places is very, very complex.

After this final commercial break, Dr. Price will talk about how to take care of ourselves when our emotions become overwhelming by the disheartening rhetoric. Immediately following Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board.

Commercial Break III

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Future Shows

The Summer of Self-Care Series continues in August. On August 4th, Michelle Markman will join me to discuss Self-Care: I was Misdiagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. This issue affects many Autistic Adults due to the confusion between Autism and Bipolar disorder among mental health professionals. Misdiagnosis often leads to harmful psychotropic drug prescriptions. Michelle will share her experience of being misdiagnosed and her journey to recovery after being correctly identified as Autistic.

On August 18th, Angela (AJ) Locashio returns to discuss Self-Care: Sexual Abuse Prevention. This episode addresses the unfortunately prevalent issue of sexual abuse among Autistic individuals. AJ and I will explore how Autistics can leverage our strengths to develop effective self-care strategies for protecting our dignity and autonomy as adults. Due to the sensitive nature of the topic, some content may be unsuitable for all listeners, and discretion is advised

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 4

Philip King-Lowe

I think a great question to start wrapping this up on. You've been affected by this disheartening rhetoric. You're angry. You're sad. You're anxious. You have a dismal feeling about your future and about your welfare, about the care that you're receiving, because there are politics that are after the health care of disabled people, and, of course, all of this talk about those time for people. So, you know, disability people, that disabled people, they get enough. They don't need anymore. You know, when we're really saying, oh, we need, actually, more than you're thinking. And once again, I want to remind my audience that just because we're talking about things that we may do, they may not work for you, but I will say, I think a lot of us can identify with those emotions that we feel, and part of self-care is looking after yourself with those emotions, and so I'm going to let you move along with that, Devon.

Devon Price

Yeah, I think one of the best things that many of us can do when we're swept up in those emotions and we're really enduring this stuff for months and months and months at a time, is to really lean into your community and do what you can to build a supportive community. And I want to be really specific about what that means, because I think talk of community can feel really threatening for a lot of Autistic people, because we have a lot of social struggles and a lot of social exclusion that we face. Community isn't just about going to some queer community center or some gay bar to choose LGBTQ examples, and immediately finding acceptance and encouragement there and feeling comfortable there. I know for a lot of us, that's not what happens and may never be desirable for a lot of us to go into those kinds of spaces. That isn't all that community means, and certainly not for disabled people either. It can be something as simple as streaming a movie on Discord for some of your other friends who also don't leave the house very much because of physical disabilities, COVID concerns, social anxiety, whatever it is. It can be things like texting somebody that you care about and just reminding them that you're thinking of them. That you're thinking of them or sending them a song that made you think about them and helping them feel just a little bit more cared for and a little bit more looked after. It can be, you know, exchanging books, trading book recommendations with people. It can be feeding someone that you see outside of your apartment on the corner who's unhoused and hungry. Any small thing that you can do to kind of lessen the burden of the people around you, or to ask for help, whether it's help moving, whether it's a distraction when you're feeling really hopeless, whether it's somebody to just be there next to you while you're feeling hopeless, you extending yourself in that way, relying on others and being relied on that is building community that is making us stronger, as disabled people, as queer people, as any other community that you're a part of. It doesn't have to be this big showy thing. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do, sometimes more than we are ever going to be capable of, or than we can sustainably do right now. Just being present with other marginalized people, whether you're giving or getting something that is a really important victory, and that is political too. And I think we deserve to kind of really savor that and pat ourselves on the back for choosing that, because a lot of people are choosing isolation and fighting and fear. And so, it takes a lot of bravery to overcome that, to just reach out.

Philip King-Lowe

Let's say we've got someone in the audience. Who isn't able to find that help that you were talking about. There's no one around them that they feel safe with. What do we say to them?

Devon Price

It’s a tough it's a tough thing. And I know that it's a lot of us in our community. So, it's not something to be easily brushed over. I think it depends a lot on a person's situation. There are a lot of disabled people who, because of their needs, they are unfortunately reliant right now upon, let's say, family members who aren't fully supportive. Financially or for physical support, or they're in a relationship where they feel reliant upon that person to take care of them, and they don't feel that they can reach out for better supports, just as examples. And then there's others among us who have just, and this used to be me to a more extreme degree, but it's something I need to constantly push against. There's also some of us who one of our ways of protection is just to isolate, because that's the only time we feel free to be ourselves, is when we don't have any what we perceive as scrutiny placed upon us. So, I think you know, if you're in one of those situations, you can do when you have the energy. And I know energy is always rare in coming for us, but when you have the energy to do it, researching what is available in your area, in terms of disability services, in terms of online groups, this is, again, is where, kind of Eric Garcia's point about social media being where things start, I think, is relevant, finding spaces and people online that you can interact with or that remind you of yourself and your struggles, and that you can potentially take those from you know, what's on Twitter or what's on Instagram, whatever, into a more kind of private conversation where you can really foster a building enduring connection that often can be really lifesaving stuff for many of us. I know people and have been this person for some in my life, who they were in a bad home situation, but then one internet friend who really took a chance on them provided a place for them to stay for a few months while they formed a whole new life for themselves. So those things are possible. It and I'm sorry it's so hard, and I'm sorry that the onus is always on us to build it out of nowhere, but it is possible. Sometimes you're just trying to get by. Sometimes you're just trying to minimize conflict in a bad situation and survive, and that's okay. Sometimes you just survive so you can get to the point where you do have the energy to do something else or find somebody who can be there for you, and that's okay too. I just, I just, I hope people can find whatever they can do to help themselves feel less alone and less unseen and it is, it is a lot of work, and it is, and it is worth it, but it's also okay if you can't do it right now.

Philip King-Lowe

Dr. Devon Price, thank you so much for being with us today to have this, this wonderful conversation. I know your work is social psychology, which is one of the reasons I like to have you talk about these things. You know, there's psychological therapy, but talking about it as a social thing, I think, is what makes talking with you so very helpful, and our listeners, you know, really do respond well when you're on. Thank you for the work you do and thank you for the examples that you set. And you know, we continue to wish you well in everything you're doing, and we always look forward to having you back.

Devon Price

Yeah, thank you for having me and thank you for creating this space for these conversations. Yeah. I was just recently listening to the episode that you did about suicide, and it was just so you maybe have done multiple at this point, actually, but it holding these kind of deeper, slower, contemplative conversations about a lot of the things that we struggle with in our community. It's, it's really important.

Philip King-Lowe

Why thank you. I appreciate your, you’re bringing that aside. Was it the one with Lisa Morgan?

Devon Price

Yes, that was the one, yeah.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah, yeah. She's just so amazing the work that she's done and continues to do. And I have to say that when, when she talks about her experiences with suicide and suicidal ideation and all that, it's like, Yes, I hear you. You make sense. You know what I mean? So, well, thank you for being on today, and we look forward to seeing you again soon.

Devon Price

Yes, I'd love to be back. These have always been great topics to delve into.

Philip King-Lowe

Thanks. Thanks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All of these events and many others with their links can be found at todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard.

Understanding Autism virtual classes will be offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. These classes are perfect for Autistic individuals, caregivers, those who want to understand the basics of Autism and support Autistic people. Classes will be on August 12th at 6pm. September 9th at 2pm. November 11th at 10am. December 9th at 6pm. Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

Applications are now being accepted by The Autism Society of Minnesota to be a speaker at the Autistic Community Summit this upcoming Fall. Speakers are needed for topics such as how Autistics can be of service in community. Finding affirming providers. The experiences of multiply Neurodivergent people. Autistic led initiatives. Masking. Navigating services and government programs. Employment. Intersectionality. Managing emotions, especially anger. The spoon theory. Applications are due by August 2nd. Go to ausm.org. Click on the menu option Events, then Autistic Community Summit for more information and apply. If you have any questions, send an email to zjames@ausm.org.

You are invited to participate with the Autism Society of Minnesota’s Jigsaw Puzzle Competition. The event will be on September 28th at the Mall of America. Registration information can be found at ausm.org.

Go to ausm.org to get more information about these and other Summer Social and Recreational Programs, educational events, counseling services and support groups at The Autism Society of Minnesota.

MNeurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing Neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections. Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect regardless of ability or preferences. Go to the bulletin board at todaysautisticmoment.com and click on the Meet Up link to become a member and attend their events.

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Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

May you have an Autistically Amazing day.

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