Neuro-Affirming Therapy Options for Autistics

Segment 1

Transcript

Neuro-Affirming Therapy Options for Autistics

November 19, 2023

Welcome everyone to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by an Autistic Adult.  My name is Philip King-Lowe. I am the owner, producer, and host; and I am an Autistic Adult. Thank you so much for listening.

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This first segment of Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored by The Autism Society of Minnesota: Minnesota’s First Autism Resource.  For over 50 years The Autism Society of Minnesota has been honored to support Minnesota’s Autism Community. Visit them online at ausm.org.

Thank you for joining me for this episode Neuro-Affirming Therapy Options for Autistics.  Sarah Dwan is my guest for this show. 

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Let’s begin the introduction of the topic for this episode with a question.  What do the words Neuro-affirming mean? A Neuro-affirming approach looks for Autistic strengths.  To be Neuro-affirming is to recognize that Neurotypical and Neurodivergent are what the Neurodiversity Paradigm are about.  To be Neuro-affirming would mean that being Autistic, ADHD, Dyslexic, etc., are accepted.  Neuro-affirming does not see an evaluation of ASD to mean that we have a disorder.  Neuro-affirming therapies use the same concept of an evaluation, but identifies Autistics as opposed to diagnosing them.  Neuro-affirming therapy helps Autistics to work through the trauma of abuse, lack of employment, and economic inequality as the injustices that they are.  A Neuro-affirming therapist will see that the Autistic has skills and talents that have been overlooked by the pathological approach, to help them build confidence in themselves.  A Neuro-affirming therapist will provide a safe space for Autistics to stim, fidget and talk about their special interests without passing a quality judgment on how they look after their sensory needs.  Neuro-affirming therapy will help other Autistics find those ways to climb, twirl in the air or hang upside down to receive the stimming they need to feel regulated. My guest Sarah Dwan and I are going to talk more in depth about what Neuro-affirming therapies look like and what they do. 

I know that you are going to enjoy listening to Sarah Dwan.  Sarah Dwan is an advocate who is energetic, passionate, and thorough.  Sarah Dwan lives in County Waterford, Ireland.  Sarah supports Neuro inclusion by amplifying Neurodivergent voices.

After this first commercial break, Sarah will talk about Neuro-affirming therapies using the Neurodiversity Paradigm using the social model of disability to respect the autonomy of each Autistic person. 

Commercial Break I

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Segment 2

Philip King-Lowe 

Sarah Dwan, welcome to Today's Autistic Moment, it is my privilege to have you on, I have watched some of your work on LinkedIn, and Facebook. So welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you here.

Sarah Dwan

Thank you so much Philip. It's amazing to be here. I too follow your work on LinkedIn. And I appreciate what you do as well. So honestly, it's an honor to be on your show. Thank you very much.

Philip King-Lowe 

You're welcome. You're welcome. I'm glad to have you here. Well, um, my inspiration for this particular topic has come from the multiple conversations that I have watched and participated in on therapies that are just not working for a lot of Autistic people. And mostly because they are not Neuro-affirming. So, I wanted to have a conversation about what are some Neuro-affirming therapies. And what do Neuro-affirming therapies do? You know, there's all kinds of behavioral modifications, there's all kinds of, you know, cognitive, behavioral, all sorts of things to address behaviors. But to actually affirm Autistics have therapies that affirm them is to, you know, help them believe that being Autistic is not being a deficit or of course, not being a failure. So, it's important that we have this conversation to talk about what are some Neuro-affirming therapies. So, with that in mind, I'm going to start with the first question and say, What important information do you feel Autistic Adults in our caregivers need to know about as to what therapies are Neuro-affirming?

Sarah Dwan 

Okay, so the first thing that I would say is, we have to be mindful that while Neuro-affirming therapists exist, we cannot call an entire therapy, neuro-affirming based on that. Okay, because it's the therapist who designs it really. So, it depends on what paradigm the therapist is working from, whether it's a pathology paradigm, or a Neurodiversity Paradigm, for example, there are tons of Neuro-affirming speech therapists, okay, that exist. But there are also tons of speech therapists that are not Neuro-affirming that exist. Okay, so we can't actually say, you know, speech therapy is, is Neuro-affirming, because it will depend on the therapist. And the second point that I'd like to address there is we have to know what Neuro-affirming means. You know, it's really important, we actually need to know what we're saying when we say Neuro-affirming. And to do that. Sorry, go on.

Philip King-Lowe 

No, no, sorry. That's a great idea. Let's explain what Neuro-affirming means. Go ahead.

Sarah Dwan 

Yeah. So, Neuro-affirming to understand that we kind of have to go back a little bit to Neurodiversity, the term Neurodiversity, okay. It is not a new term, even though you might think it is. But it's actually around over 30 years. You know, it was first, it originated out of the Autistic community in the 90s. And literally, Neurodiversity. The term Neurodiversity means it's a biological and evolutionary fact. And it describes a variation of human brains, and it encompasses all brains. Okay, and this point I want to stress because Neurodiversity includes both neurotypical and Neurodivergent. It just it's literally the concept that everyone has a different brain. Okay? And a good way to remember that, to kind of even understand the term further is it can be likened to the term that we have for our various plants and animal life. Biodiversity. Okay? So, it's literally neurological diversity, Neurodiversity. And it's not an approach. It's not a movement, and it's not something any individual can possess. The Neurodiversity Paradigm, on the other hand, okay, this is this is not just solely Neurodiversity. This is the Neurodiversity Paradigm that was first described back in 2011. By Dr. Nick Walker, who is an Autistic scholar, who you actually had on your show recently, who I adore her. I would recommend anybody interested in Neuro-affirming care and practice to look up the work of Dr. Nick Walker. So, the Neurodiversity Paradigm is a specific lens through which to view Neurodiversity. Okay, it rejects Neuro-normativity. And Neuro-normativity is just a fancy word for the idea that there is a single, normal, or right brain because there is there's no gold standard brain, there's no golden standard way of living. Okay, that is normativity. And that is a social construct. Furthermore, the Neurodiversity Paradigm rejects the pathology paradigm, by acknowledging that Autistic people do not have deficits. We don't need to be cured. We don't need to be fixed. We are not broken. But it's the pathology paradigm that prevails, you know, it's it prevails, and the Neurodiversity Paradigm stands in opposition to that. So now that we know what Neurodiversity and the Neurodiversity Paradigm is, now we have the foundation for where we can discuss what Neuro-affirming is. So, Neuro-affirming therapy is an is affirming holistic framework for supporting Autistic and other Neurodivergent people. And it uses the Neurodiversity Paradigm as the lens in which to support us. So that's the key about Neuro- affirming therapy. It uses. It's built on the foundation of the Neurodiversity Paradigm. It actually it aligns quite nicely with a social model of disability. And it takes a kind of, you know, a rights based and a strengths-based approach, prioritizing autonomy, consent, and respect surrounding our needs. And it just something that I would like to stress there is there's a common misconception that the Neurodiversity Paradigm, just kind of it's all strength based, you know, and we completely don't acknowledge the various and diverse challenges that our Autistic community face. But we absolutely deal with a Neurodiversity Paradigm acknowledges our challenges. But the difference is in advocates for our needs to be met in in a way that supports our autonomy in a respectful way. And also considering human rights, you know?

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, absolutely. You know, David Gray-Hammond, who has also been on my show a few times, just a brilliant, brilliant mind. Fantastic. Yeah, no, he did a fantastic little video to explain how the how Neurodiversity is a liminal point between, you know, if you because if you think about what the liminal point is, it's like the doorway between the hallway and say, the living room. It's where, where, where it changes, it changes. And so like, if we were to compare, to compare Neurodiversity in terms between the pathological and the actual, Neuro-affirming piece, then what we could say is that, you know, there's the provincial side, and then there's the Cosmopolitan. And that, Neurodiversity is that liminal point that takes us out of a provincial way of thinking of Autistic needs, and going into the cosmopolitan which opens us up to a wider a wider possibility of how we can reach for a greater potential for our life. It's like the pathology part is very limiting because it limits us to what that pathology says. The Neurodiversity Paradigm opens up this huge new space by which we can actually be affirmed, accepted. And I like to I like to use the word integrated, rather than be necessarily separated from, if you will. But that's just, that's just my point. So, please continue with what you have to say. I'm going to say let's, let's, let's give a few examples of what therapies are Neuro-affirming, including why they are affirming. Go ahead.

Sarah Dwan 

So, the goal of Neuro-affirming therapies really is supporting Autistic people in a collaborative and proactive way to meet sensory communication and emotional needs. Yeah, ultimately, okay. Yeah. But what they prioritize, as I had said, they prioritize respect, autonomy, and consent, and ensures full inclusion in decisions. You know, we should be included in decisions that directly, absolutely, it's not, you know, it's not rocket science, you know, the fact that we even have to say this out loud and kind of advocate for that is actually ridiculous when you think about it, you know? Another core principle is understanding and respecting intersectionality. And also, a commitment to gender-affirming care. So, trauma, trauma informed, you know, because the overlap between, say, the Autistic community, and the LGBTQIA+ community is huge.

Philip King-Lowe 

Is enormous, yes.

Sarah Dwan

So that gender affirming piece is quite important as well.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Especially, especially since Dr. Walker and I and I have a feeling you will say the same. I am convinced I become more convinced than ever, that Autistic people are in general, gender non-conforming. You know, I think I think whether one is straight or gay, lesbian, bisexual, I really don't think that matters, really. Because as far as what society frames the stereotypes of, of male and female, or, you know, basically I would have to say, the majority of Autistics don't fit those stereotypes.

Sarah Dwan 

Yes. It’s so true. It really is. Like, I'm, I'm straight. You know, I have a fiancé and what I would definitely would have been classed as a tomboy. You know, no, I'm currently, you know, in inverted commas, I'm quite girly as well, you know, I love getting my hair and my makeup done. But I would have loved you know, as a child, I would have, you know, loved playing with tractors and I hated Barbies. They do not give me a doll, you know, I want to be out in the mud, you know, totally, is what we will call on us, you know, so I understand what you're saying there. There was, there was, I was never one to be mainstream anything, either. You know, absolutely. My parenting style is not mainstream, I would have adopted a Montessori approach. Yeah, from a very young age from one child. He's five now. You know, again, not mainstream, you know, in my parenting, I never kind of did you know, the whole reward and punishment, you know, here, I give you this chocolate now, if you go clean your room or whatever, like, you know, just it was. So anyway, I'm going off on a tangent there.

Philip King-Lowe 

Okay, that's okay.

Sarah Dwan 

Autistic people are like we are generally non-conforming in a lot of ways. We are. Yeah, no, I think honestly, that is one of our huge strengths to be honest.

Philip King-Lowe 

And we can get back into what we were talking about when I when I say that Neuro-affirming therapies are going to respect those gender non-conformities. Yes. So go ahead, take off from that and go into it. Let's talk more about what Neuro-affirming therapies are and give some examples.

Sarah Dwan 

Another key piece to neuro-affirming therapy is the therapist will know and have an understanding that Autistic communication and play Okay, so those two asks except Autistic communication and play are valid and valuable, and they do not need to be changed as such. Especially, you know. So, I don't you probably are familiar with, but maybe some of our viewers or listeners won't be doing the work of Dr. Damian Milton. So, his work on the double empathy theory is groundbreaking work that he has done. And essentially, it is pointing out that communication is a two-way process. Okay. And you know, the miscommunication between Autistic people and non-autistic people. The responsibility of that breakdown and miscommunication is always placed squarely on our shoulders. You know, we're the ones that need social skills training, you know. We're the ones that need to do all this work on our communication. But really, if I require social skills training, well doesn't neurotypical people require it as well? Because communication is a two-way process. That the breakdown in communication isn't all our fault. Not all down to us, you know? Like neurotypical communication is valid for neurotypical people. But Autistic communication is valid for Autistic people. And it has to be respected all across all methods of communication. So that includes AAC, you know, things like you know, type to text, visuals, like all communication is valid. And while we're on that point, verbal communication, that is not the superior form of communication. You know, they have to, we have to change our view, that verbal communication is superior to nonverbal communication. Because it's, it's, it can be quite harmful. That notion, you know, and the pressure, then the pressure that parents often put on their nonspeaking kids to speak, you know, and to say that children and adults, none of us should feel that pressure, you know? Our communication has to be kind of, you know, it has to be respected in that sense. And Neuro-affirming therapies do that because they know that Autistic communication is valid. And in terms of Autistic play, you know, Autistic kids, often they love lining things up. You know, why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you like lining things up? It's great organizing. Well, my point is, Autistic play is valid, like a child completely that it's, it's, that's just because it's not neurotypical play doesn't mean there's anything actually wrong with it just because it's different. If people could just understand that, you know, their worldview isn't the only one that exists.

Philip King-Lowe 

Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

After this next commercial break, Sarah will talk more about what you heard Ashlyn Baker mention in the episode Overlapping Triggers & Soothers in Autistic Relationships.  When therapists use the special interests of Autistics to help them regulate, it gives Autistics confidence. When Sarah and I talk about self-advocacy, I will talk about a recent trend in the United States that interferes with Autistics getting Neuro-affirming therapies. 

Commercial Break II

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Are you thinking of buying holiday gifts for yourself? Do you have an Autistic person in your life and want to buy them the perfect gift?  Caregivers are reminded that many Autistics do not like surprise gifts. Many Autistics may not be able to appreciate a gift they were not expecting.  Other Autistics might not be able to enjoy a gift that does not take their sensory support needs into consideration. Many Autistics cannot tell you they like a gift you gave them if they honestly do not like it.  If you want your Autistic loved one to enjoy your holiday gifts, ask them to be part of your planning and listen carefully to get them exactly what they want.  If you are unable to get exactly what they want, work with them to find out what they might want in its place.

On that subject, consider giving yourself and/or asking your Autistic loved one if they would like to receive a 16oz drinking cup and/or a beautiful lapel pin with the Logo of Today’s Autistic Moment on them.  I am currently running a Holiday Sale that offers a coupon code to receive 10% off of the price of the items.  Coupon codes can only be used once by each customer. The Holiday sale is good through December 26^th. 

Happy Holidays from Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 3

Philip King-Lowe

You know, I love to bring in some, some of my previous guests points with stuff like this, because for example, thank God for Lisa Morgan. She was on my program in September, we were talking about Suicide Prevention for Autistic Adults. And one of the points that she made that is very much applicable to this is that a lot of the work that she does with Autistics in crisis is, you know, let us use the strengths of Autism to find solutions as to how to work your way out of a crisis. You know, if you're rule based, let's use that as a strength. If you're honest to a fault, let's use that as your strength. You know, and use that to help you, you know, build yourself build up to a way that you can build your life from those things, and make yourself a life that's yours, you know, rather than someone else's. I think that's a brilliant point. And I just had Ashlyn Baker on just this past. The show just before this, where we were talking about Overlapping Triggers and Soothers in Autistic Relationships. And Ashlyn is a mental health professional. And she had actually said that, you know, sometimes when she gets a client who comes in, and you can see that they're dysregulated, you know, that one of the techniques that she will use is just, okay, let's sit for a while and let's, let's, let's talk about your special interest. Whatever your special interest is, and as they talk through that special interest, you can see in front of your face, that suddenly they're becoming very regulated, now they can calm down, they can actually participate in a conversation with you. And even if all you're talking about in that conversation is, whatever their special interests are, and it brings them to a point where they can, you know, really think, and, and live in a way, so they're not quite so anxious, they're not quite so, you know, afraid or what, then you've done your job. Yes. That's Neuro-affirming. Would you agree?

Sarah Dwan 

Absolutely. Our focused interests are incredibly regulating. You know, and also, I would add that about the focus interests, of course, I'm, I can't speak for everybody here, you know, the Autistic community is not a monolith, you know, we're all completely different. But for me, like, my interests are, they are so they are literally a part of who I am, you know? Absolutely. They are so ingrained in in who I am, you know, and because they are my very focused interests, okay? My ability, my ability to learn, process, and retain information about my focused interests is very, very high, you know, so, for example, anything that I've ever had an interest in, if I just, I can just consume huge amounts of information on it very quickly, and then just remembers, you know, and, and that that's a huge strength that I have, you know, and I know a lot of a lot of Autistic people have that strength. You know, oh, yeah, I think credible. And I call it I don't know, if you're familiar with the Theory of Autism that was developed by Autistic people by, Dina Marie, it's called mono-tropism. Yes. Yeah. So, I would call that like being in a mana tropic flow state. And, and it's all surrounding my interest, you know, when problems, any problems, or solutions, I get all these amazing ideas, I can see connections very clearly. And, and but I wouldn't be able to do that with anything else only for my very focused interests. You know, they're very, very powerful for, for many of the Autistic community. Yeah. And, and, as you said, incredible for regulating if I'm particularly dysregulated a quiet room is always number one for me. Yeah. And then number two is time with my focus interests, you know, mine is neuro inclusion, you know, Neuro-affirming care, advocacy, you know, they're actually all and they're all links to each other as well. You know?

Philip King-Lowe 

You know, I'm seeing something here in your notes that I am fascinated by, I would love for you to talk about. I never actually thought of this before. I saw this but a Neuro-affirming Assessment with the Adult Autism Practice. Wow, you know, what, I've had guests on this show, actually, they've noted that the current pathology is, is you know, built for blond, white, male, straight people, straight people. And it often excludes people of color, it often excludes women. And what does a Neuro-affirming assessment look like? Give us a give us a, give us a picture of what that looks like. Yeah. Can you do?

Sarah Dwan 

Yes. So, I will definitely try my best like, first just to say, you know, we are very lucky here in Ireland, because I don't think even such a practice exists in America. As far as I'm aware anyway, but we have a fantastic practice in Ireland, and it’s called the Adult Autism Practice. And they're completely neuro-affirming at least for me. So yes, they still have to work by, you know, the DSM. Because that's how assessments are carried out. That's how you get identifications, but it's the way in which they do it. So, for example, you know, number one, it's not called a formal diagnosis. You don't go to them for a diagnosis. You don't go to them for a diagnosis because Autism is not an illness, and it is not a disorder. So, the term that they actually use is an identification.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, you know that that's something that's that actually Carole Jean Whittington brought forward. And I'm so glad she did that we're now talking more about identification rather than a diagnosis.

Sarah Dwan 

So, that's what they would have done there. And then, you know, they obviously go through your questions and things with you. But then, but it's the way that they speak to you. And it's the way that they the terms they used, you know, they would have never, they would have never kind of pose a question that would suggest that I have social deficits. You know? They would have never, you know, they would have never said, Do you have any unusual sensory? You know, they would have never, they didn't use the word unusual. You know, it's all about the terms, the language was just affirming, it was just literally asking me questions. And then, like, the report that I received back will say, was, did not say, "Sarah shows, lack of social communication, Sara shows restricted, repetitive behavior." Right, right. Here show, you know, X, Y, and Z. You know, did you ever see, you know, a form a diagnosis the way it's normally done? Yeah. And, you know, the report that I'm talking about don't just like the way it's phrased the way when you read it, you can do you think that there's absolutely Oh, my God, that doesn't even explain me. You know, it's so negative, and oh, my god, there must be something wrong with me. And I am all these terrible things that they're saying, you know, that was completely omitted.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, well, yeah. Well, when I was, I went through my evaluation 12 years ago now, the thing is, is, you know, mine was used for what we used to call Asperger's were really, no, please don't use those words, folks, please don't, please don't do that. But it was based on have you ever had these things happen to you? Or has anybody ever told you these things happen to you? Such as Have you ever had issues with eye contact? Have you ever had issues with you know, someone saying that you're too focused on something, you know, that sort of thing?  And then if you meet, meet so many of those, and it's an indication of, as well as how this one was used. I see, you've given this great list of resources, some of which already exists on my Adult Autism Resources, links page, and some that don't, but I will be adding them in. Now, I do want to turn to my third question, and we can do this completely. Ad Lib, I guess where we say, but what important steps should Autistic Adults in our supporters take to advocate for our needs? Which brings me to a point that I have been learning throughout the last two years, at least in the United States, we're through our terrible broken healthcare system here, that is just in disarray. You know, about a year and a half ago, or a little more than that now. The therapist that I was working for working with who was really doing some great work, for me, announced that he was leaving the clinic that he was he was using, and I was using, to tell me that he was going to start his own personal practice with a partner, and that he would not be taking private insurance. And the reason he would not be taking private insurance is because the private insurance or even in the case of the U.S. for Medicare, Medicaid, which is our public health system, health insurance programs for people with disabilities, as we say, is that they, those insurance carriers, will determine what kinds of therapies can use, what types of therapies they will not use or cover. They will decide how much time one actually gets with a therapist, and they will determine, you know, you know, how much that therapy, how many appointments that act that therapists actually need to do in order to get properly paid for those services. It's all a disaster.

Sarah Dwan 

Oh, my God, that sounds awful.

Philip King-Lowe 

It really is. So, he like I said, he announced to me that he was he is not accepting private insurance for those reasons. Because if he doesn't accept the private insurance, then he can give whatever therapies he can offer that are for example, Neuro-affirming and therefore, you know, he gets a greater opportunity to, you know, offer good therapies without insurance carrier looking over his shoulder. That's a good thing in one respect. On another for a lot of us Autistics who are either unemployed underemployed, disabled reliant upon Social Security to help us, you know, pay our mortgage and, or rent, whatever. Basically, what that means is that we can't access those services, because without our insurance to access them, we wouldn't be able to possibly pay for the fees that they charge, even on what we call a sliding scale. They'll offer a sliding scale, you know, instead of paying the full amount, you just pay this small amount. And you know, that, that so on and so forth. And I've found several other therapists of various kinds who are following suit with that, one of which is Ashlyn Baker, who was just on earlier this month. And she said the same thing. She's not accepting insurance because, you know, she doesn't want insurance companies breathing down her neck, you know, and also, she wants to be able to give the therapy that helps them and, you know, she's got ways of helping people cut their costs. I also have had, Erin Brandel Dykhuizen was on as my second show in 2022. Erin Brandel Dykhuizen she's a social worker, actually not necessarily a psychiatrist or psychologist. But what she does is she helps Autistics work through pain management, chronic pain management, which is a huge matter for a lot of us actually. And so, she's another one that she's not accepting insurance. So, you know, this puts us Autistics in a terrible position. Because of the reasons I mentioned, but also because we will have to advocate, we will need the people who advocate with and for us to advocate that insurance. That public and private insurances will in fact cover you know, Neuro-affirming therapies. You know, and for example, there's one particular type of therapy that can do wonders for certain for certain Autistic issues. And that is, occupational therapy can be extremely helpful. But a lot of what happens is the therapies that are destructive, those are the therapies that get funded through our public health system. And something like, like occupational therapy might not actually be funded, which is absolutely absurd, is absolutely absurd. So, I'd say the biggest and the most important advocacy that Autistics in the U.S. need to do is really stress upon our, our leaders of government and therapists, quite frankly, you know, if you're going to a therapist, and you feel that therapist is not affirming you, you have every right to say I'm not feeling affirmed by you. And as Kelly Lenza and Dr. Devin Price spoke of, if you are working with a therapist that is not providing you with the proper care, it is okay to leave the appointment. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, these are, these are some of the barriers, but these are also very important parts of self-advocacy, where Autistics, you know, you know, and this is where it becomes so difficult because a lot of us are Autistic, our voices are not properly heard. Our voices are not taken seriously. But the point is, is that we need to insist that, that therapists provide Neuro-affirming care, you know? Which goes back to some points that I had made on several shows. One is you need to know, you know, become the expert about your own brand, make, and model of Autism. You owe that to yourself. You have to become the expert about who you are. And then you have to become the expert about communicating to others what being Autistic means for you, you know? So, I mean, I mean, this is one of those things that is real.  And you know, and this is why a lot of Autistics prefer to forego any kind of therapy. Because they feel they can't get something. And in a case like that where someone can't get Neuro-affirming care. And if you, if y can't do this on the last minute, that's okay. But we can sort of search for a few together. Let's say somebody can't access Aeuro-affirming care. What are some things they might do to help themselves? Can you talk about that a little bit? Or? Yeah, yeah, let's do that.

Sarah Dwan

I kind of just wanted to add as well to your point about access. It's so important, because society as a whole, we cannot claim inclusion. If we do not have access.

Philip King-Lowe 

Right! Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah Dwan

You can't have inclusion if we have children. And if we have adults that don't have access to support, you know, if that's a basic, basic violation of human rights. I totally agree. So, you know, totally, totally agree with what you're saying there. In terms of advocacy. Similar to your two points. I would also add learning about Autism, from Autistic people.

Philip King-Lowe 

Absolutely! Yes. Okay, perfect. Go ahead.

Sarah Dwan

That's number one for me. And number two know your human rights. So, I don't know Is America included? Like, we have the UN CRPD. So, you know, just know your rights as well. You know, your voter education, you're going to communication, know those rights, and be able to point out when your rights are being not given. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. In terms of support and services, I have this phrase, be a squeaky wheel?

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes. absolutely.

Sarah Dwan

Okay. So, like I'm talking, ringing them every week, writing letters, contacting the radio, asking, would you, you know, can you go on and talk about your lived experience of being Autistic and how there is no services and supports in my area? Write letters. Write to the newspaper. Contact your local politicians, and connect with other Autistic people

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah.

Sarah Dwan 

So that's key is where that that that point is key for our mental health. Yeah. Because there's nothing. There is nothing like talking to other Autistic people and having many of your experiences mirrored back to you. What I mean by that is it that in itself is very, very affirming. For example, you know, I can I have incredible hearing, you know, I can hear everything. You know, I can hear the electricity. Okay. I've never, you know, anytime I've ever said that to anyone around me, they will be like, Sarah, there is no sound here. There is no sound. Okay? When you when you were talking to other Autistic people, you're like, Oh, my God, I hear electricity to, you know, yeah, it's yeah, it's like, you know, it's, it's just, it's amazing. The connection, the, you know, you're not the only one, you know, kind of thing. Yeah, it's you don't feel as alone if that makes sense.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. I call that I like to call that building your social support networks. Yes. It's how I like to call it and that's where LinkedIn is absolutely fantastic for us, Autistics.

After this final commercial break, Sarah will talk about her Facebook page My Life Through My Lens and her work for Disability Advocacy.  Immediately following that, Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board.

Commercial Break III

Future Shows

Join my guest Mitchell Schaps and I on December 3^rd for Planning Neuro-Affirming Holiday Social Events. During the first two seasons of Today’s Autistic Moment, I have talked about Autistic Adults: Preparing for the Sensory Unfriendly Holidays and Managing Holiday Stress. I want to begin this Holiday Season by talking about how Holiday social events that can be planned with Neurodivergents involved in the plans.  Mitchell Schaps joins me from MNeurodivergent. An organization that plans social events by getting Neurodivergents to organize the events.  Mitchell will give us some great ideas of how to plan Holiday Social events that are Neuro-affirming.

Season 3 will conclude with Angela (AJ) Locashino on December 17^th as we will talk about Autistic Professionals Supporting the Autistic Community.  Throughout the years, we have enjoyed hearing from so many Autistics who are professionals with services that support the Autistic Community.  Angela (AJ) will be here to talk about the important work that many Autistic Professionals are doing to support the Autistic Community.

Season 4 of Today’s Autistic Moment will begin on January 7^th, 2024, with Daren Howard from The Autism Society of Minnesota to talk about Details and Practices for Autistic Adults to be Employed.  On January 21^st, Eric Ringgenberg from The Autism Society of Minnesota will join me for the episode Emergency Preparedness Planning for Autistic Adults.

Check out the Future Shows page on todaysautisticmoment.com for all shows coming up through January 2024.

Do you have any topic ideas for future episodes of Today’s Autistic Moment?  Go to the Contact Us page on todaysautisticmoment.com and submit your topic suggestions.  Go to the page for Be My Guest to submit a Guest Intake Form if you would like to be a guest.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 3

Philip King-Lowe

You have a group on Facebook, Through My Lens?

Sarah Dwan

My Life Through My Lens, it's a group though. It's not a group. Okay. Well, my Facebook page, yeah.

Philip King-Lowe 

Okay. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what you do through that page.

Sarah Dwan

I basically advocate for the Neurodiversity Paradigm. Yeah, across all aspects of life. So, I deal with from different perspectives. Sometimes I talk about education. Sometimes I talk about parenting. Sometimes I talk about health, you know, it's, it's just broad. You see, my goal is literally to make the world more inclusive. So therefore, that encompasses a lot of areas of society, you know, so that's all I just share my lived experience of being Autistic and share the, you know, make better known the Neurodiversity Paradigm. I'm an advocate for that. Disability and Neuro inclusion advocate. So that's what I do. And if I'm not advocating online, I'm advocating in my personal life, or I'm advocating in college. So, it's just a huge part of my life I deal with day in and day out. It's one conversation at a time as well. So, look for I look for moments of where I can bring in, you know, the Neurodiversity Paradigm into different contexts. You know, you can always bring it in. Like I recently wrote a philosophy essay on Plato's Cave. And I brought in the Neurodiversity Paradigm into my essay, you know? It can be brought in anywhere.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I think your points are well taken. I mean, you know, yes, we'd like to have our be the Neuro-affirming care that we'd like to have. But if it's really that difficult to get it, and the next best thing you can do is to build yourself a Neuro-affirming social support network of some kind. And the thing is, is that, you know, there's all sorts of things that happened to us. I mean, like I say, a lot of us here in the states that are Neurodivergent, we find ourselves on the bottom, end of the economic totem pole here. But the point is, is that there are still some things that you could do. And that's why I always say, you know, when we tell our stories about what being Autistic means for us. And I know, it's so hard, because sometimes you feel like nobody's hearing you. You actually are at least beginning a conversation that will somehow lead somewhere. Okay, but you have to start somewhere. You know, we have a lot of conflicting forces for the Neurodiversity movement in this country. But I will say that, in the last 10 years, that movement has been moving, better forward. And it's because of people like Dr. Nick Walker, it's because of people like David Gray Hammond. It's because of people like yourself, it's because of people like me. And this, like Carol, Jean Winnington, many of the people that I've been mentioning, we have been insisting, we do not need to be isolated in as in, there's something wrong with us. We're a deficit. We're deficient, you know, you know, we are voicing and saying, You know what, no, we don't need to be pathologized. So that we so that we are, you know, those poor little things and that sort of thing.

Sarah Dwan 

We do not need to be your object of charity.

Philip King-Lowe 

Objects or charity or pity for that matter. Yeah, we don't......

Sarah Dwan

Don't mourn for us. No, no,

Philip King-Lowe 

No. In fact, what we're actually talking about here with Neuro-affirming therapies, and what the Neurodiversity movement is trying to say is, celebrate us. Yes, learn about who we are, and celebrate who we are. You know, you know, if we can only do a little bit more than that, I think I think more Autistics would be employed. More Autistics would have a better chance with economic, economic security. And I think I think it would really change the landscape of what's happening for a lot of Autistic and other Neurodivergent people. Well, Sarah, this has been an absolute pleasure. This has been an absolute pleasure. No, you, you have gotten some great advice and some great information about what Neuro-affirming therapy options are. I'm so glad that we have had this conversation. Is there any other point that you might like to make before we conclude this interview?

Sarah Dwan

Yes, just one actually, I would like to just say to people who are advocating for themselves, the key to successfully advocating for yourself is having the understanding that you are not broken. Exactly. You are not disordered. There is nothing inherently wrong with you just because you are Autistic and know that living Autistically is a valid and valuable way to live. And you have every right to live Autistically. When you understand that key point. You will effectively advocate for yourself or your child. Very, very well.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Actually, when you learn to be Neuro-affirming when you learn to accept yourself, and you learn to see yourself as having so much potential because you're Autistic. It is empowering. Absolutely! And I'm gonna say what I said at the end of my last Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussions where we talked about the famous words that all of us hear "your behavior is not appropriate." You know how we hear that more times than we care to count? No, I'm gonna say this and I want, and I want all my audience to hear this is that being Autistic is normal. Being Autistic is our normal. Okay? And what I want to say to neurotypical is your normal, and our normal can coexist. And that's what this Neurodiversity movement, that's what Neuro-affirming, is about. Saying that your normal, and our normal can coexist. And there's no reason it can't be do you agree? Exactly. Yeah. All right, Sarah, once again, thank you so much for being here today. Wow. What a fantastic conversation. This has been. I hope you've enjoyed it.

Sarah Dwan 

I love this. Thank you so much Philip. Thank you.

Philip King-Lowe 

Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Please go to the Adult Autism Resources Links page on todaysautisticmoment.com and scroll all the way down to a list of resources that Sarah has provided about Neuro-Affirming therapy options.

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All of these events with their links can be found at todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboardent.com and scroll all the way down to a list of resources that Sarah has provided about Neuro-Affirming therapy options.

Join The Autism Society of Minnesota for their Adult Coffee Club.  The next Coffee Club will be

on Tuesday night from 5pm to 7pm at Dogwood Coffee in St. Paul on November 21st.  Please RSVP at ausm.org.

Understanding Autism virtual classes will be offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. These classes are perfect for Autistic individuals, caregivers, those who want to understand the basics of Autism and support Autistic people. Classes will be on December 18^th, 10am-12pm.  Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

On December 7^th, beginning at 9am to 12pm, The Autism Society of Minnesota will host a virtual workshop about Gestalt Language Processing (GLP). Marge Blanc the presenter will help you outline the six stages of Gestalt Language Processing (GLP) compared to the stages of Analytical Language Development (ALD). 

On December 12^th beginning at 7-8:30pm, Jillian Nelson will present a skillshop at The Autism Society of Minnesota entitled, Minnesota Service Navigation.  Learn what services are available and which ones may work best for you and your loved ones.  Services vary on an individual and family basis. Jillian can walk you through what the process is like and how to find out what someone qualifies for in the State of Minnesota.

Go to ausm.org to get more information about these and other social and educational events at The Autism Society of Minnesota.

MNeurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing Neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections.  Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect regardless of ability or preferences. Go to the bulletin board at todaysautisticmoment.com and click on the Meet Up link to become a member and attend their events.

Matthew the #ActuallyAutistic Coach has room in his Finding Your Autistic Self Group Coaching Groups. In the groups, participants learn about unmasking strategies, coping tools, burnout & post-burnout support and much more. Go to autisticcoach.com and click on Autism Support Groups for more information. While visiting Matthew’s website, be sure to check out the Free Autistic Discussion Circles for Autistics of various age groups, careers, students, and ethnic groups. 

Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored in part by Looking Forward Life Coaching.  Looking Forward turns stumbling blocks into stepping stones towards success.  Go to lookingforwardlc.org for more information.

Today’s Autistic Moment is here because of the generosity of supporters and sponsors.  Please join the supporters by clicking on Support Today’s Autistic Moment on todaysautisticmoment.com.  If you work for a company and/or organization that supports Autistic Adults and the movement for Neurodiversity, I would love to have you sponsor ads on the show.

If you would like to sponsor an ad or have questions about Today’s Autistic Moment, please send an email to todaysautisticmoment@gmail.com.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

May you have an Autistically Amazing day.