Autistic Advocacy Month: Our Boundaries and the Responsibilities of Others Free Version

[00:00:00] Welcome to Today’s Autistic Moment, a Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult. My name is Philip King-Lowe, I am the owner, producer, and host, and I am an autistic adult. Thank you so very much for listening.

[00:00:20] Out of the 14 individuals who participated in the Autistic Advocacy Month episode questionnaire, 64.3% said that boundaries take teamwork, emphasizing the need for clear communication and mutual respect.

[00:00:42] Coach Lee Hopkins will explain that boundaries are crucial in close relationships where both parties must respect each other's needs. Coach Lee Hopkins and I will introduce the concept of, quote, needs, negotiables, and nevers, end of quote,

[00:01:04] to categorize personal boundaries and address the challenges of setting boundaries with other neurodivergent individuals. Come join us for the episode, Our Boundaries and the Responsibility of Others on Todays Autistic Moment.

[00:02:28] This first segment of Todays Autistic Moment is sponsored by the Autism Society of Minnesota, known as Awesome throughout Minnesota's Autism Community. As Minnesota's first autism resource for more than 50 years, awesome serves the whole state, the whole spectrum, for the whole life. Visit awesome at ausm.org.

[00:02:56] In addition to the wonderful guests and conversations on today's Autistic Moment, you can find many more resources. Visit todaysautisticmoment.com to listen to over 120 episodes released since 2021. Check out the episode schedule 2026 to see upcoming topics, guest information,

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[00:05:19] Autistic Advocacy Month is winding down this week, but the need for Autistic Advocacy is a year-round necessity. Go to the April 2026 events calendar on the website for Autistic Advocates United. Each day has an activity to participate in. Activities include sharing your favorite recipes,

[00:05:49] writing out the accommodations you may like or need for work, create art, get to know the autistic community using references to the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, or reframing autism, review the checklist for evaluating nonprofits and advocacy organizations, share your favorite neurodiversity autism books,

[00:06:18] get to know podcasts, shifting the narrative and today's autistic moment. Feel free to participate in the activities of any day, on any day or month of your choosing. Coming up after this first commercial break, Coach Lee Hopkins and I will talk about our boundaries and the responsibility of others on today's autistic moment.

[00:07:11] Today's autistic moment can be downloaded and heard on most podcast apps, including Apple, Google Play, Breaker, CastBox, Overcast, iHeartRadio, PocketCasts, Radio Public, Spotify, TuneIn, Pandora, Amazon Music, Audible, Podcast Addict, Podcast Chaser.

[00:07:38] If you are looking for the transcripts, go to todaysautisticmoment.com, click on the episode you want to listen to, and follow the directions to find the transcripts. Thank you for listening to today's autistic moment. Hello, autism community. My name is Lisa Morgan.

[00:08:02] I'm an autistic adult too, and I know firsthand what it feels like to be unintentionally harmed by well-meaning professionals when reaching out for help. My passion is to help autistic people find and use their own unique strengths to help themselves. Are you a rule-based, a literal thinker, have a focused interest? Let's figure out together how to use the strengths of autism to find solutions.

[00:08:28] I offer life coaching for autistic adults and individualized workshops for professionals. To find out more, go to autismcrisissupport.com. Life managing you, or are you managing your life? Do you want to find more peace in your life? For many of our clients, self-care is a key to success.

[00:08:56] Skill building and feedback is essential for self-care. Looking forward life coaching helps provide structure through our person-centered approach that has demonstrated growth for many of our clients. If you or a loved one needs help with structure and strategies around self-care, help us to help you to help you better understand the future. Please visit us at www.lookingforwardlc.org, email us at info at lookingforwardlc.org,

[00:09:24] or call us at 612-504-7414. Self-care and resiliency can help you weather the storms of life. Looking forward life coaching helps change stumbling blocks of life into stepping stones towards success.

[00:09:41] Coach Lee Hopkins is a social connections and business culture coach

[00:10:30] and the CEO of Patterns of Possibility LLC. Coach Lee works with late identified autistic and ADHD professionals, entrepreneurs, and analytical thinkers who want to build meaningful relationships and conscious conversation.

[00:10:55] Coach Lee's work has supported hundreds of professionals in developing confidence, clarity, and connection in both personal and professional relationships. Please join me in welcoming Coach Lee Hopkins to today's autistic moment. Coach Lee Hopkins, it is truly my pleasure to welcome you to today's autistic moment.

[00:11:25] We are so excited that you have taken time from your busy schedule to be with us today. So welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Philip. I'm excited to be here too. We are going to have the second of two shows during Autistic Advocacy Month about boundaries. In the last episode with Becca Laurie Hector, we talked about defining boundaries.

[00:11:55] We talked about our responsibilities in terms of, you know, securing those boundaries for ourselves. And we talked about ourselves. And we talked about things like, you know, when it comes to doing self-care, we do those things. And, you know, basically it's how we communicate to the world, how we would like to be treated. And it's how we, you know, look after ourselves. That is what Becca and I discussed.

[00:12:22] And so, and we also talked a bit about how our boundaries can affect different relationships and that sort of thing. So now Coach Lee Hopkins and I, we're going to talk about our boundaries and the responsibilities of others. And I'm saying this in large part because in the question on the survey, on the questionnaire,

[00:12:50] whose responsibility are your boundaries? And 64.3% out of 35.7% answered, my boundaries take teamwork. I need to communicate them clearly. And the other person needs to respect them, which we found very interesting. Becca's response was she thinks that the 35.7% have a point. Yeah.

[00:13:19] But considering the majority of those who took the questionnaire said otherwise, that's what we're interested in, in this particular one. And of course, we'll see what we have to say here. Yeah. Yeah. So Coach Lee Hopkins, can you talk a little bit about more about our boundaries and responsibilities of others and how you understand that? What are your thoughts? That's a great question.

[00:13:46] And those numbers really speak to me too. Like 64% of people responded saying, boundaries take teamwork. And so I like to focus on that. They take teamwork. And what I like to say is that it's about the kind of people that you want to be around. So when I think about boundaries, I start thinking about relationships and the kind of relationships that you have with people.

[00:14:14] And so those people who are going to work on your boundaries with teamwork, those are going to be your closer connections. There's going to be your friendships. There's going to be people who want to, that you really want to be close to, connect with, talk about things that are really deeply important to you. And so I agree with the fact that boundaries take teamwork in some kind of relationship.

[00:14:39] Like if you look at some special kinds of relationships, like the closer relationships, but if you look at different relationships, like maybe the one with you and your company, boundaries may not take teamwork because they may look at you as just a number. They person that you can just, that they can just like get rid of. And that would be extremely unsettling to you. And this has happened to me.

[00:15:05] If you believe that they were going to work with you as a team on your boundaries, respect your time off, respect your energy, respect your capacity, but they may not. And so boundaries in that case are your responsibility. So that's my, my thoughts about it is boundaries work in these particular situations, which relates to the kind of relationship you're having with another person.

[00:15:30] The deeper relationship, the more responsibility it is for both of you, because you both want that kind of relationship. You want that connection, but things like companies, they are your responsibility because they're, they're not as, as caring as we'd like them to be many times. And as for the closer relationships, how do you see boundaries working in those situations? In the closer relationships, I think boundaries start with us.

[00:15:59] We're not, no matter what boundaries. I like to say that they're the shape of you. They tell people how you want to be treated. You have to teach people how you want to be treated, what you want from them and they get to respond. They, you can't control their response. So it's your responsibility to say, hey, you know what? I'm a little too busy or I'm a little too tired to come out tonight. I don't want to talk on the phone. I'm not interested in texting.

[00:16:26] I'd rather go to this movie instead of that movie. It is you who is the one who needs to say what you want from the other person. And in the closer relationships, the people who value how you feel and respect that will do the internal work as a team. Like it's a team situation now because they are doing their own work on their side to meet you where you are. So they value their relationship.

[00:16:53] They know that you don't want to go to this movie, but they really want to go. So instead of pestering you trying to get you to go to the movie that you don't want to go to, they will sit with their own disappointment and then they will not push it on you. Or they will go find someone else to go to the movie with or they won't go at all, whatever it is that they're going to do. But essentially, it is respecting the teamwork comes in because you have said what you wanted. You'd said what you needed from them. They heard you.

[00:17:22] They dealt with their own frustration, sadness, disappointment, whatever it was. And then they came back to your boundary and respected it. They didn't try to cross it because they value what your relationship could be if they don't cross that boundary. I want to talk a bit about what my own understanding of boundaries has become over this past month.

[00:17:46] The way I think of boundaries is it is setting a boundary, a space around myself for me. And my responsibility for my boundary is mine. Because again, I'm creating this space around me. It's basically creating, to put it more correctly, it's setting a safe space for me.

[00:18:11] And when I do that, like using the example I used with Becca Laurie Hector last episode, I'm going to take 4 o'clock to 5 o'clock in the afternoon as my safe space, my self-care time. And so I'm going to communicate with my spouse or anyone else in the home that during this time, I will not be talking.

[00:18:40] I will not be texting. I might be turning off the ringer on my phone or the notifications for my messengers. I'm going to, and I'm going to tell people that this is something that I'm doing right now. Please don't text me or call me until after I'm done.

[00:19:03] And so that's, that's the boundary I am placing around myself and I am communicating to someone what it is I plan to do. Now, let's say someone else does that in return to me. They tell me things like that. When they tell me that they are setting a boundary around themselves, now it is my responsibility to set the appropriate boundaries around myself to protect myself so that I can respect the other person's boundaries.

[00:19:33] Because this is their boundary, not mine. Right. My responsibility, and as I see things, that your boundaries are the responsibilities of yourself. In fact, it's interesting the way that some people do communicate boundaries because someone is might say, here is my boundary. You keep it. Being the literal thinker I am, I'm going to say, no, that's not my boundary. You keep it. I would throw that.

[00:20:03] I would throw that back to you. I, you know what I mean? Yeah. Absolutely. Here's my boundary. This is your, no, that boundary is yours. It's not mine. Mm-hmm . And so if somebody does set up a boundary around themselves on the opposite side, now my responsibility is to myself so that I don't disrespect their boundary. That's how I think I'm thinking of this. Right. I'm, I'm with you. Yeah.

[00:20:31] And there's so many people who would say it differently, but that's what I'm thinking. And this is where, you know, I used this example and it was really interesting in one of my other survey questions. When a flight attendant gives safety instructions, they will tell you to put your own oxygen mask on before helping anyone else. Boundaries can work the same way.

[00:21:00] You need to set and protect your own boundaries first. Then you can help someone else understand theirs. What do you think of that? I like the idea a lot. I mean, based on what I was talking about earlier, it makes sense to me that, well, I, I have to know who I am first. Essentially boundaries are the shape of you. They're an outline of you. It's protection of yourself. Right. It is what you're going to do, how you're going to behave in any given situation.

[00:21:30] This is what a boundary is to me. And so if I'm going to help somebody else set their boundary, I have to make sure they know what mine are first. Otherwise there's this risk of codependency of me really not holding a boundary. So I agree with this 100%. Put your oxygen mask on first. Right.

[00:21:50] And among the reasons that I wanted to have this conversation, especially with you, it's because in one of my communications with someone else regarding boundaries, they were speaking of if you've got two neurodivergence, for example, and one of them goes into a panic of any kind.

[00:22:13] Because you set a boundary that's off routine or you set a boundary, they don't like it because it's again, it's a change in things and they don't know how to handle that. So the individual asked a great question that I think is worth asking. How do you set boundaries when the other person panics? How do you help that other person? Exactly.

[00:22:41] How do you pay attention to your needs when the other person is simply not able to? Because, you know, we know that when someone is panicking, when they're anxious, we're not exactly thinking rationally at that point. So making rational decisions becomes a lot more difficult at that point. Yeah. So that's a really great question. You know, helping others co-regulate so they're not happy with you setting your boundary.

[00:23:09] They are experiencing some frustration and they're upset with you and maybe trying to push your boundary. So how do you help or handle that? Well, the first thing I would do is look at the relationship type. It's just super important to look at the type of relationship that you have with this person because it's going to dictate how much energy you're going to put into it. And that's just how I function. I want to make sure that, you know, you know, that's that's how I function.

[00:23:37] If it's a close relationship with this person, I may have expectations for them to sit down and go away from me with that because we had talked already about this boundary. I expect them to do more work and support me and figure out what it is that they need. Like if I say I do not want any interruptions between four and five, like in your example, I want the space to myself.

[00:24:07] I'm turning off notifications and they come knock on my door at 415. I would feel upset. And so it'd be hard for me to help them regulate because we are in a close relationship already. I've said this and there's an expectation that they do something else. Right. There's an expect there'd be an expectation. So in other relationships where maybe the expectation hasn't been set, maybe the words haven't been set already.

[00:24:36] I would let's say an acquaintance or something. I would remind them and I would also this is the way I think about it is to help them realize that this is a strong boundary and I would not be able to help them regulate. I would not be able to help them regulate by spending my time because I think about it this way. I said between four and five, I'm going to have some me time.

[00:25:02] They come to me at 415 and they say, no, you can't have me time. I don't like it. And then you spend the next 45 minutes up to five o'clock trying to get them to go away because they're upset. You lost all your me time and your boundary was crossed and they learned nothing. So what I would do is not try and regulate people if I'm I'm dysregulated or if I the fact that they got all your time is important to know.

[00:25:31] So I would hold that boundary and then I would talk to them afterward when both of us could be in a more calmer space because I know that emotions, they feel like they're going to be around forever, but they're not. They last for just a moment. If we do some breathing, if we go right about it, if we go do something else and come back to the specific topic in a calmer state, we can then help each other.

[00:25:57] Because while one of us is spinning out, the other one is can be close to spinning out to and being just as frustrated. So I don't recommend to try and co-regulate in the times where the boundary is crossed. Both are probably frustrated at the height of their emotion. It it's go to different corners and let's talk about what to do when that happens next time.

[00:26:27] Like calm down. Let's talk about what to do when that boundaries crossed. But you have to have that conversation and talk about what you can do in those situations, like what your friend can do who has crossed their boundary or your close connection can do what your associate, whatever they can do in times where the emotion is not running high. And or the other part is to have some kind of conversation about this before there is a crisis.

[00:26:54] Yes. If you know the other person is probably going to feel anxious or it's going to be in a panic, then, you know, you do it before the emergency occurs. Right. You know, you might even do a practice with it. Yes. I love that practice. Five or 10 minute practice, you know, so, you know, and then, I mean, you can do things.

[00:27:18] Okay. That person felt anxious. Okay. Let's talk about, you know, maybe not only the anxiety, but or and all that. Maybe let's talk about things that you that the other individual might be able to do to manage that anxiety. Mm hmm. Again, that's not really our responsibility.

[00:27:36] Agreed. Agreed. But if you're really, really close to somebody, you're you and especially where we're talking about neurodivergent people, we're going to have those conversations before we arrive at a crisis.

[00:27:50] Yes. Yes. I like that a lot, Philip. Yeah. Right before. Not right before, but talk about it. Talk about it. So when the event happens, everyone's prepared. It's like instructions for how to put your oxygen mask on in the plane. Like they give you a full speech before it could possibly happen. So you know what to do.

[00:28:09] Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Coming up after this next commercial break, Coach Lee Hopkins and I will talk about autistics experiencing alexithymia to understand their feelings when boundaries are disrespected.

[00:28:28] We will also talk about our own experiences with boundaries and introduce the quote needs negotiables and nevers and quotes to categorize personal boundaries and address the challenges of setting boundaries with other neurodivergent individuals.

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[00:31:14] But you don't have to face it alone. Peer support is not just helpful, it's necessary. Community is not a luxury, it's how we survive. Showing up in our full autistic cells with our stims, our sensitivities and our joy is an act of resistance. In a world that tells us to hide or disappear, we choose to be visible together.

[00:31:42] You'll find one-on-one coaching, free support groups, educational workshops and more. All rooted in the neurodiversity paradigm. Built by autistics for autistics. Come be part of something real. Visit autisticcoaches.com There are many podcasts you can listen to these days about autism.

[00:32:11] Today's autistic moment is celebrating Autistic Advocacy Month by presenting a podcast where an autistic adult hosts autistic adults so that our stories are told and heard. In the coming months, there will be opportunities for autistics to be interactive with the podcast as we will talk about building autistic communities, friendships,

[00:32:39] upholding our dignity as autistic queer people, maintain safe autistic queer spaces, talk about practicing the pause, creating a path towards trust, caregiving and so much more. And we will be expanding our network.

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[00:33:58] Welcome back, everyone.

[00:34:40] Before the commercial break, Coach Lee Hopkins and I talked about the difference with boundaries for a working relationship versus closer personal relationships. We also talked about setting our own boundaries before we help others with theirs.

[00:35:01] Now we are going to talk about where we left off during the last segment regarding neurodivergence in relationships with other neurodivergence to discuss and manage their boundaries. And, you know, therapy to help people communicate, you know, people communicate these things is a great idea. And, you know, there's a good possibility that this is something they may have done and failed to do.

[00:35:30] So they're seeking some help to figure out how to do that. That's great. You know, but the point still is, is that if you're in a relationship with another neurodivergent person, you know, and even if it's somebody you don't, maybe you're building a friendship with, but you don't know very well, you might, you know, again, it's important to have those conversations before we get there.

[00:35:55] Now, I also realized that alexithymia can set in and because I remember someone saying that they don't know what their feelings are, nor do they feel like they can communicate them. I mean, look at these questions. Feelings if someone crosses your boundary boundaries. And then the feelings if you cross someone else's boundaries.

[00:36:20] There were a lot of people who in this said, I get angry with the other person. Others said, I don't know if I'm more angry at myself or the other person. I'm embarrassed. I feel like I failed. The more there was there was several who said they they do panic, you know. And again, there were these people said, I don't really know how I feel when these things occur.

[00:36:49] And we know that many autistics are affected by alexithymia where they just don't know what they feel. So they need that time and space to try to figure all that out and talk through it. And this is where, you know, taking our own responsibilities and helping up and, you know, doing what we can for someone else. This becomes really, really difficult. But don't you think? Yeah, absolutely. That's why I appreciate all of these.

[00:37:16] It kind of points to my own life experiences because I'm already frustrated that you've crossed my boundary. And now you're mad at me because I'm mad at you. And we're just escalating this whole thing when you're crossing the boundary. And so having my own self-regulation and trying to regulate somebody else who might need to know how they're feeling or why they're feeling the way they're doing, it is hard. Just keep it simple. It is very challenging. And it puts a burden on the relationship. It really does.

[00:37:46] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, so, you know, this is where a good self-talk, a self-talk and also talks with each other really does come in. And now this brings me to the point where that I and Becca Laurie Hector talked about last time as well.

[00:38:09] A lot of this conversation about boundaries is because, for me personally, I failed to hold a boundary in place. And when this person came to me and asked me to help them, I was setting a boundary and I let them tell me that, you know, they want something more than that. And therefore, basically, they were telling me, you know, your boundary is not going to work for me.

[00:38:37] And I became very vulnerable to them and they were very vulnerable to me, you know. And that relationship has gone through many, many ups and downs. And I can't tell you what else it's done. And more recently, I've come to understand that if I had, in fact, kept that boundary, you know, if I had held that in place, we might not be where we are.

[00:39:02] And so what the point I like to make is when you don't keep your boundary or hold it in place, you do a terrible disservice to yourself, a horrible disservice to yourself. And it also winds up being a horrible disservice to the other person. Yeah, you know, I completely agree with you 100 percent with that and having those experiences, not being able to hold my own boundaries.

[00:39:31] You know, one of the things that I grew up believing is that, well, you have to make everybody happy. And so if somebody came to me and said that to me, Philip, that boundary isn't going to work for me, I would adjust because that's what I've done in the past many, many times. And now I think of it as, you know, as an analogy, like I'm looking for something specific. Like when I think about boundaries, I'm looking for something specific, specific actions and behaviors from people.

[00:39:59] And I have a I have a right. I don't want to say right, but it is my need and it is for me. And nobody can tell me that I can't have these things. Let's just say that. So nobody can tell me that I can't have them. And so I use this analogy thinking that, well, if I was a baker and I wanted to connect to somebody who also baked, I want to make sure that they could bake.

[00:40:23] And so I wouldn't be frustrated or I would be very frustrated if they told me they could, like they were this kind of person and they couldn't crack an egg. They didn't know how to make a souffle or they didn't know their way around the kitchen. I'd be very frustrated with them because they're not doing the things that they said they were going to be able to do or at least the things that I said I wanted from them. They're not doing that.

[00:40:50] And so they come into the space and I'm like, well, OK, it looks like you didn't know how to crack an egg. There's shells all in the cake that we made. Well, you know, you don't know how to mix anything. You don't know where the ingredients are. You don't know how to measure anything. Oh, well, I guess that's OK. Now, I'd be really, really frustrated because they weren't able to do the things that they said that they were going to do.

[00:41:10] And I would be frustrated with myself because I said I wanted a baker and I settled for something that wasn't a baker, somebody who couldn't do the things that I wanted them to do or needed them to do. And so I've done that for many, many years. The last thing I'll say about this is something kind of actionable that helped me figure out a little bit more about my boundaries because boundaries seem kind of vague and nebulous to me. What are boundaries exactly?

[00:41:37] Even though we had this definition, like how do they show up? Well, what can I do? And I have a very systems mind brain. So I categorize my boundaries into or actually call them specific behaviors and actions from other people. So there's specific behaviors and actions that I never want to see from other people. If I do see these things, you're out. Gone. Gone. No compromise. You're done.

[00:42:06] Nevers. Those are my nevers. Then I have my needs. These are specific actions and behaviors that I need from other people. I need them. I need you to tell me that I did a good job. I need you to not show up at four o'clock when I said that, hey, I'm busy at four o'clock. I need you to not do that. So those are my needs. And then in the between is the negotiables. Those are things that those are actions and behaviors that people can do that won't bother you one way or another.

[00:42:36] They might text you after 10 o'clock, but you didn't say it's not a big deal. You just won't answer. You know the big deal. Right. So it's not a deal breaker. So I call these my needs, negotiables and nevers. And they help me really create an understanding about what kind of relationships that I'm going to have with other people. So I'm going to get angry if you do something I never want you to do. I will. I'll probably. And I'll just. But I know I never want that again.

[00:43:05] So it's easy for me to say, hey, no connection anymore. If I need something from you, then and you do it, I'm going to be very happy. I'll be joyful with these boundaries, with these connections. So that's how I look at it needs, negotiables and nevers for knowing when someone crosses a boundary in particular. If it's something you need, they didn't cross it. But if they didn't do it, they did cross it. Does that make sense?

[00:43:35] Yeah, I think it does. I think it does. And I love how you said the word show up, because this has been a big thing on my on my side, too. If someone starts a relationship by which they say they're going to be this close to you, that there are things that they're going to do for you, you're really happy and things are going along smoothly.

[00:43:57] And then someone may say, actually, I can't perform those duties or needs because that's going to create a problem. Yeah. And then there's going to be those moments where something that they said is now no longer true. So therefore, you have to ask the question, how honest were they with me in the first place?

[00:44:20] You know, and then the point there comes this point in time when a lot of these things happening multiple times becomes very toxic. Oh, yeah. And it winds up sowing distrust. It winds up sowing those emotions, those feelings, those constant rounds of we think things are fine when in fact they're not.

[00:44:47] We think things are great and in fact they're terrible. And so the question becomes, how much more mental health energy can we pour into a relationship that definitely appears like it just can't be that way?

[00:45:08] Then, you know, as sad as it is and as difficult as it is and, you know, especially if we're working with other autistics and neurodivergent people, we know it's a terrible thing to be. It's a terrible space to be put in because we want to be there for each other as neurodivergent people. We want to be supportive. We want to give them the company that they need because we know how much we need it too.

[00:45:34] But if these are constantly in conflict and sowing atmospheres of distrust and questions about how honest we are and what is it actually we're doing and it's just not communicating, not communicating. I think at that point it's important to make some very difficult and very painful decisions.

[00:46:00] And unfortunately, it may result in saying, I just can't help you anymore. Right. Yeah. And that comes down to it. I mean, I think you said something really important there with we want to help each other because we know how much they need it and we know how much we need it too. We want that support for each other. But it's hard if no one's putting on the air mat. No one's putting on their oxygen mask here. Nobody's taking care of themselves.

[00:46:29] They're just like, oh, well, I'm going to let I'm going to let this go or I'm going to question, but I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to hold my boundary with you because I know that you need my help or I know that I'm feeling like I want to be in the space to help you. And it's about making that trade off or that recognizing that dynamic that you'd mentioned. Like, what are you here for? Are you really getting your needs met?

[00:46:56] Are you getting your needs met because you're helping a person who is draining you? Because for some people, they really feel good about helping other people and they often forget themselves. So they do that. And there's nothing wrong with it as long as you feel fulfilled with giving as much as you can. And I could say that many people end up reaching a breaking point.

[00:47:25] So there's nothing wrong with it until you figure out until it becomes until something wrong becomes it like it's something that you do not desire anymore to do. Then you help the person. This is what I found in my own personal journey. You help the person by letting go. They're not learning a lesson from you about how to set their own boundaries. They're not learning how to keep boundaries because they keep crossing doors and keep allowing them. You're teaching them how to be worse to others in the world, essentially, from that dynamic.

[00:47:56] They're not learning what a strong boundary is because you're not holding one. And you're also draining yourself. This is me talking about my own life experiences. I've learned that I've just been drained and drained and drained, trying to keep something that wasn't working. And so now what I do, because I've spent so many years doing this, a couple decades or so, doing this, not setting my own boundaries, not being strong about it.

[00:48:23] I know any situation or any relationship I get into or connection I have, I know what I want, my needs, negotiables, and nevers. I figure those out before I get to this place. So there's some self-discovery that helps me understand how I'm going to feel when I cross a boundary or when somebody crosses a boundary. I do that work. And you'd mentioned therapy, so I did a lot of therapy as well. But I know what I want. I know what I'm looking for, needs, negotiables, and nevers.

[00:48:51] And then I give people three times. Three times. I know it sounds like egregiously ridiculous, but three times to not do the things that I don't want them to do. So the nevers. So there's three strikes for the nevers. There's three nevers that I never want to see. And then there's three needs that I do want to see and I don't get.

[00:49:17] I look for those and it makes time shorter and that I spend with people and I get more intentional about being in spaces with people who can hold their own space, who can respect my boundaries. Because after each never, I have a conversation. After each need, I have a conversation. I want to tell them, hey, I didn't like this never thing. I never want this to happen again. Like, I never want this to happen again. So I do have a conversation with them.

[00:49:47] And then the needs. I want to make sure that I tell them if they did something well. Hey, thanks for respecting my space at four o'clock to five. Because you did that, I feel so much more refreshed. What do you want to do now? Then I talk to them, you know, have a conversation because they want to talk to me that many times, but they can't. So the reward is, you know, letting them know they did something well and how it strengthens our relationship. So I think I'm going to stop there and turn the mic back to you. Yeah.

[00:50:16] I really, really appreciate what you said in there. That was so very well articulated. And I think you're absolutely right. And I really do appreciate the three strikes it's done sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, and it is really difficult. I think a lot of us are off neurodivergence.

[00:50:39] Do want to stretch our boundaries a little bit because again, and this is where so many of us get into problems. And then it becomes difficult for us to hold off boundaries with anybody really. Yeah. It really builds into a routine that winds up leading us into, into unhealthy relationships and, you know, and. Yeah.

[00:51:06] With work and with, with people everywhere. Cause we, we, we, we struggled to hold our own boundaries and I would say that we may not have had great role models in doing this and setting boundaries. Um, we've always probably felt like we were doing something wrong. And so we have to like adjust and, and things like that. And, you know, we don't have to do that anymore. We can learn.

[00:51:29] After this final commercial break, Coach Lee and I will talk about boundaries, grace, and our intersectional communities. Today's autistic community bulletin board will follow.

[00:52:06] Did someone just inform you that you have autism? Are you wondering what the difference is of what being autistic and being a person with autism means? Maybe what you need is help finding life coaches, crisis support, education, and connecting with the autistic community. I can help you with these and other questions you may have.

[00:52:35] TAM autistic consultation services are not therapy or legal advice. My consultation services offers you education, supports, with recommendations to people and resources to see if they will work for you. Go to todaysautisticmoment.com to read about TAM autistic consulting services.

[00:53:02] If interested, please fill out the intake form and make an appointment so we can begin working together. Support for todays autistic moment comes from Best Care Home Care Agency. Best Care offers PCA services and your friend or family member could be your paid PCA.

[00:53:30] Best Care also offers homemaking, FMS services, and 2, 4, 5D services throughout the metro and greater Minnesota. Visit their website, bestcaremn.com to learn more about their services. MICC provides transformative education and training for autistic and neurodivergent adults to live independently, work purposefully, and thrive in community.

[00:54:00] With hands-on learning and caring guidance, MICC participants accomplish things they never imagined. From daily living tasks like taking public transportation or managing finances to building and sustaining a career and lifelong friendships. Learn more about our inclusive community in Richfield, Minnesota at MICC.org.

[00:54:23] On May 10th, Gabby San Miguel from Minnesota Independence College and Community will join me for the episode, Autistics Thriving Through Community Building and Strong Friendships. Gabby is a graduate from Minnesota Independence College and Community. Gabby will talk with Phillip about how she found authentic community and friendships during her years in college.

[00:54:53] On May 24th, Lisa Morgan and I will present Autistics Thriving by Finding Themselves After Grief Management. If you have suffered the loss of someone you love, you will go through the first stage of grief. After the first stage of grief, you will want to find yourself with a gap that the other person left in your life. Autistics need to use their strengths to navigate the change.

[00:55:20] Lisa Morgan will join me to give you some advice about how you can find yourself after a time of grief. Check out the episode scheduled 2026 on todaysautisticmoment.com for details about these and other upcoming shows. Thank you for listening to today's Autistic Moment.

[00:56:53] Welcome back, everyone. That we articulate for everybody. That if you are having more problems with your boundaries than, say, maybe even normal, or you're really having those struggles, then we could name them all day long. I do think we all have to exercise a little grace here right now because of all the horrible things that are happening within our government and within all of the intersectional communities affected by what is happening.

[00:57:23] And that doesn't mean that we give up on maintaining our boundaries and doing the things we need to do. But I think there does need to be some room for some self-grace here and even a little bit of grace, however limited that time may be. Because our boundaries are rights and they're not being honored. They're not being respected.

[00:57:50] So I really do think there needs to be some measure of grace that we apply to ourselves and even others. What do you think of that? I appreciate that you called that out because we are not separate as individuals from the society. So the society, whatever it's doing, has an impact on us as individuals. And it may be unsettling already. We're already in an unsettled space. And we have somebody create a boundary that upsets us.

[00:58:19] And we're like, oh, no, I needed that support. The world is, it feels like the world is falling apart. And now this close connection or this friend or this person, the associate that I have is setting a boundary with me too. I'm feeling kind of like rejected, rejected. And so understanding that and giving people grace for that is wonderful. It's very helpful. If you can extend that, it's important to do that.

[00:58:44] You know, as far as the social issues go, it's really frustrating. And it's, I feel like I'm going into this political space. But I won't go too far into it. Just say it's all about, you know, there's constant noise and it's unsettling. It hurts our nervous system anyway to have it. And so giving grace for that is super important, I think.

[00:59:11] It'll strengthen your relationship if you can talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. And that doesn't, this is not saying we excuse those who don't. And it certainly doesn't mean we let others walk on our paths necessarily. But it does mean that, you know, if you've, if you've had your problems keeping them, keeping your own and even respecting others, again, give yourself a little grace here and vice versa.

[00:59:39] You know, and, you know, again, you have to do what your, what your human brain, your human needs or whatever allows. But I really do think it's important, you know, and that sort of thing. So there we are. Coach Lee Hopkins, thank you so very much for this amazing conversation. Oh, man, it was so much fun. I had a blast.

[01:00:07] I really appreciate the numbers to go with my data analytic brain. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Well, thank you so much again. And we definitely look forward to seeing you again sometime that you have been marvelous with this. So thank you again so much. And we do look forward to seeing you again. Thank you. If you listen to my conversation with Coach Lee Hopkins and you are thinking,

[01:00:36] Hey, Philip, I really enjoyed the conversations, but the segmentation music and ads were distracting. I have a great alternative for you. Sign up for a subscription to ad-free interviews on todaysautisticmoment.com. The subscription is only $12 a month or $144 for a whole year.

[01:01:03] Once you buy the subscription, you can click on any show where you see the logo for todaysautisticmoment ad-free interviews to hear only the interview without interruption, segmentation, and music. You can listen to all ad-free interviews going back to July 2025 and all upcoming shows.

[01:01:30] Today's Autistic Community Bulletin Board. All these events and many others, such as sensory-friendly concerts, art activities, and museum information links are available on todaysautisticmoment.com forward slash bulletin board. The Steps for Autism will take place on May 17, 2026, beginning at 9 a.m. to 12 noon

[01:01:59] at the Rock at the St. Louis Park Rec Center, located at 3700 Monterey Drive, St. Louis Park, Minnesota, 55416. This is an outdoor event in the covered hockey rink behind the Rec Center.

[01:02:21] There will be fun and inclusive events, a resource fair, a flash dance and sensory walk, costumed characters, and community-building opportunities. The Adult Coffee Club for Autistic Adults in Minnesota are held on the second Tuesday of every month,

[01:02:42] weather permitting, at Dogwood Coffee, located at 2700 University Avenue West, Suite 100 in St. Paul, Minnesota. The zip code for your GPS is 55114.

[01:03:01] The Adult Coffee Clubs will begin at 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. on May 12th, June 9th, July 14th, August 11th, September 8th, October 13th, November 10th, December 8th. Understanding Autism Virtual Classes are offered by the Autism Society of Minnesota.

[01:03:29] The next classes will be May 11th, 12 to 1 p.m., June 8th, 6 to 7 p.m., July 13th, 10 to 11 a.m., August 10th, 12 to 1 p.m.,

[01:03:48] September 14th, 6 to 7 p.m., October 12th, 10 to 11 a.m., November 9th, 12 to 1 p.m., December 14th, 6 to 7 p.m.

[01:04:05] On Thursday, May 7th, beginning at 6.30 p.m., Joyner Emmerich will present a workshop at the Autism Society of Minnesota entitled Autistic House to Home, A Guide to Affirming Home Space.

[01:04:28] On Thursday, June 11th, beginning at 9 a.m. to 12 p.m., Dr. Barb Luskin will present a workshop at the Autism Society of Minnesota entitled Supporting Autistic People with Higher Support Needs, Tools for Communication, Choice, and Quality of Life.

[01:04:53] Go to ausm.org to the Education Menu option to download the Summer Programs Catalog 2026 to learn more about these and other social and recreational programs, educational events, counseling services, and support groups at the Autism Society of Minnesota.

[01:05:19] Men Neurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections. Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect, regardless of ability or preferences.

[01:05:39] Go to their website, menneurodivergent.org, for more information, become a member, volunteer, and attend their events. Today's Autistic Moment is here because of the generosity of supporters and sponsors. Go to todaysautisticmoment.com and select Support Today's Autistic Moment to donate.

[01:06:03] If you have questions about Today's Autistic Moment, please send an email to todaysautisticmoment at gmail.com. Thank you for listening to Today's Autistic Moment, a podcast for autistic adults by an autistic adult. May you have an autistically amazing day. All of the guests meet with me on Zoom to record the interviews.

[01:06:31] The interview transcripts are provided by Otter. The podcast is prepared and edited on WavePad Master's Edition by NCH Software. The podcast is published by Spotify for Podcasters. The music that you hear is licensed to Today's Autistic Moment by premiumbeat.com. Thank you.