Go to todaysautisticmoment.com for the transcripts.
A.J. Locashio, Jessica Jahns and Philip will talk in detail about the focus for Today’s Autistic Moment in 2025. How are Autistics multidimensional? Autistics are Neurological. Physical. Cultural. Awareness. Avoidance through masking. Seeking. Relational. Personal. Social. Engaging. Autistics have so many opportunities to lead in our intersectional identities to influence social change. A.J., Jessica, and I will talk about the many ways that Autistics can cocreate environments where we can get our support needs met through collaboration and community building with other Neurodivergent people.
Dyslexic Accessible Transcript: Navigating the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership
Spanish Accessible Transcript: Navegando por el futuro del liderazgo autista multidimensional
German Accessible Transcript: Navigieren durch die Zukunft der multidimensionalen autistischen Führung
French Accessible Transcript: Naviguer dans l’avenir du leadership autiste multidimensionnel
Chinese Simplified Transcript: 引领多维自闭症领导力的未来
Transcript
Navigating the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership
January 26th, 2025
Episode Preview
A.J. Locashio, Jessica Jahns and I will talk in detail about the focus for Today’s Autistic Moment in 2025. How are Autistics multidimensional? Autistics are Neurological. Physical. Cultural. Awareness. Avoidance through masking. Seeking. Relational. Personal. Social. Engaging. Autistics have so many opportunities to lead in our intersectional identities to influence social change. A.J., Jessica, and I will talk about the many ways that Autistics can cocreate environments where we can get our support needs met through collaboration and community building with other Neurodivergent people. Join us as we will elaborate on Navigating the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership on Today’s Autistic Moment.
Segment 1
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On Wednesday, February 26th at 2:00pm central standard time there will be a new episode of Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussion entitled: I am Autistic: I Am Not Disordered. Eric Garcia and three other panelists will answer some comments that were made last November that Autistics are not normal, and we need special treatments. Our panelists will talk about being Autistic as a unique identity and how we are not disordered. Though Autistics have disabilities because of the microaggression of ableism that society uses to marginalize Autistics, we do have strengths to achieve success that go unrecognized. This episode of Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussion will be live and recorded on the YouTube channel @todaysautisticmoment.
One last thing before we get to the first commercial break. I want to remind all of you that your self-care is of the utmost importance. Social media is rolling out the news from one blog or news source after another at top speed. It is very easy to get so caught up in what you are seeing and reading, that you may not realize how much it is draining you of your energy. It is easy to miss just how much energy you are transferring as you may feel your chest tightening, you are more nervous and shaking, and you find yourself getting into more arguments or having others avoiding you more than usual. Whether you are fully aware of such things or not, it is important for you to withdraw for a while to regulate yourself. Log out of your social media accounts for a few hours a day. Drink some water, eat a snack, fidget, stim, turn up your favorite music, or binge, listen to a podcast, or your favorite television shows, and drown things out so that you protect your own peace. Find other Autistics from within the intersectional communities you are part of and share your feelings and build a sense of belonging to people who understand you. Do self-care your way but be sure that you are making it part of your everyday life.
After this first commercial break, A.J. Locashio, Jessica Jahns and I will begin our conversation about Navigating the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership.
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Segment 2
Philip King-Lowe
AJ Locashio and Jessica Jahns, welcome back to Today's Autistic Moment. It is great to have you back, especially as we begin discussing the topic for Today's Autistic Moment in 2025 so welcome back, both of you.
AJ Locashio
Thank you so glad to be here.
Jessica Jahns
Nice to be here as well.
Philip King-Lowe
I've been talking since the middle of December about the focus for Today's Autistic Moment in 2025. And I've been saying it's about Navigating the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership. As I've been working with both of you collaboratively, we have said, we have asked the question, How are Autistics multidimensional? The answers that we have put out there are that Autistics are neurological. We are physical. Cultural. Awareness. Avoidance through masking. Seeking. Relational. Personal. Social. Engaging. There's a lot in there, so we want to unpack a bit for our audience. What we're doing with this focus for 2025. This is my response to the times we are now in where we will face disappointments. We will face feeling like we're being set back major time, and feeling like we're going back to the drawing board, having to start from square one and engage this culture of discrimination, this culture of bullying, this culture of once again answering those questions. We are not, we are not a deficit, and no vaccines do not cause Autism. We're kind of going back to all those square pegs one so we need that's why we're talking about Autistic leadership. And there's lots of things we're going to talk about. So, let's start. I'm going to start with AJ and then let Jessica reply. But to start off, let's build a foundation for our conversation about Navigating the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership. And let's give some examples of what we're talking about. And let's really give our audience a real look at what we're going to be doing. Go ahead, AJ.
AJ Locashio
You know, I love this topic, because people put us on a binary right off the bat, right away, it's you're Autistic, and therefore you are and they list all of these things, and they attribute that to every Autistic person.
They do the same with and therefore you are not, and they list all of these things. And again, they attribute that to every Autistic person. And I think what they forget is that we're human, and every human is different in some ways, and we're similar in some ways to other humans. And it's time for us to be having that conversation that says, I am proud to be Autistic, and I am not Autistic like you think Autism is so let me enlighten you. Let me engage with you in a conversation. There's one of our words right there, engaging. We want to engage in the environment around us. We want to engage with the people in that environment. Too often we are not allowed to do so, and what that creates for us is an inability to have economic security because we're not allowed to engage in safely in our communities. Without that, we're not able to thrive. We're not able to do the things. So, people might say something like, you're always you're always in your head, and you're always inside yourself, instead of being engaged with the world around you, and really that isn't true. It doesn't matter how we communicate that isn't true. We are engaged with our environment all the time.
Philip King-Lowe
Yeah, I also want to say that a lot of the things that we're talking about that are happening around us are being created to make it appear that we have a deficit, therefore we are not able or to prove "how Autistic we really are." We ought not to be able to do those things. And again, that's written by ableism, massive, micro, aggressive ableism, okay, and so...
AJ Locashio
And that's in the medical community too, right? Like when somebody like myself goes to get diagnosis, those assumptions and biases may be there. And the fact, you know, the first doctor who I saw said, “You are too articulate, you communicate too well to be Autistic.” Right. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you are the doctor who everybody said is the best in the space, and you just said that to me.
Philip King-Lowe
Yeah. In other words, Autistics don't really know how to communicate, and the fact that you do is a sign that you are not. And you know, we know that is just plain wrong. Jessica, what do you have to say?
Jessica Jahns
Well, you know what AJ brought up about, you know, having all the different aspects. You know, Autism affects everybody differently based on their background or based on how other people view them. You know the context is everything. And when you talk about connecting with your environment and the people around you and the context that's around you, it's absolutely true, we are always connected. We're just connected on a greatly different plane of existence than everybody else is connected, right? And I kind of see it as we're just connected on this deeply intuitive level. So, and it's so deep that often we don't realize what is affecting us, right? Because our sensory environment changes around us, and it affects things that we can't even explain the cause and effect, right? You know, I don't know why I'm dysregulated today, but maybe the weather changed, or, you know, something else changed around me and there's energy fields, and there's all kinds of things going on all the time. And I think most people, you know, particularly non-autistic people, are still possibly affected, but not in the same way. I think there's lots of these context-based things that you know just aren't seen there. They're happening beyond our ability to understand them as human beings, right?
Philip King-Lowe
Yeah, I really want to turn back to the 100th show during which I had asked Dr. Devon Price to talk about how he sees Autistics leading. And there was something he said in there that still resonates with me.
Dr. Devon Price
Yeah, I think there's a couple of different ways in which Neurodivergent people can offer a lot of really strong leadership during times of social upheaval, of oppression. I think the most obvious one is how excellent. Well, it's obvious to other Autistics how excellent we really are at social organization. We've created spaces like this one, like this podcast, so many conventions, so much of the infrastructure of the internet has been built by us. So many just fandoms and social groups that are devoted to kind of nerdy or special interests have been driven and built by Autistics. Even though we have a stereotype in the wider culture of not having social skills, we are very socially skillful people in a lot of different ways. And there's a lot that we can offer to one another simply by building spaces that allow for us to come together, and that can be overt political organizing, and many of us do that in some way, but it can also just be getting together a group chat for all of the people living in your building, so that you actually know your neighbors and can share resources or organize a rent strike someday, if you need to against your landlord. Or just kind of give somebody the cup of sugar down the hall who needs the cup of sugar. It can be things like creating, in my case, and a few friends’ cases, a Discord server where people go and they chat with one another. They're talking with other trans people from all across the globe, comparing and contrasting experiences from one country to another, one culture to another, reading books together, feeling less alone during a time where things are incredibly perilous and it's very difficult to find other people and find safe spaces. It can be things like just offering one another a distraction to help keep our mental health running while doing all of this kind of hard work. So, there's that, I think there's also the kind of nonhierarchical, kind of mutual aid, kind of leadership that a lot of marginalized groups, including Autistics, can really offer to one another to help build networks of care and networks of resistance that are not as dependent upon the state. Because unfortunately, we can't trust the state to take care of us. So I'm very fortunate living in Chicago that it's easy to get plugged in to a lot of mutual aid groups, but I participate in a lot of groups where we bring food on the weekends for any of our neighbors in the community to just access the food stuff that they need and run a free store where people can get, you know, brand new, clean underwear, used coats for the winter children's toys and things like that. And crucially, it's a system where any of us who work there, there's not a hierarchy between volunteer and recipient. Some of the people who are working during the Saturday morning food shift they're taking eggs and bread and milk home because they're broke and starving too. You know, we are all helping one another and leaning on one another, and I think that's something that disabled people are really excellent at doing. You know, we don't have a lot of power in the conventional sense of this world, but together, we can really lean on one another and fill a lot of gaps. And I think the final thing that I would bring up is that Autistic people can be wonderful leaders in our non-obedience, in our defiance. Many of us have pathological demand avoidance. Many of us have very limited spoons, and we can be sometimes the first people to say, no, I'm not going to follow this unjust rule. I'm not going to comply with this unjust law in advance, as so many states are doing, just complying with really restrictive laws that are passing all across the country. I'm going to refuse to follow those rules. I'm going to say no. I'm going to not allow myself to be used as a as a tool of oppression. And that doesn't always look like what people imagine leadership to be, but I think that is the real leadership is comporting yourself in your life every day in a way that shows care for the people around you and respect for yourself and your values, and that frees other people to do the same thing and follow suit.
Philip King-Lowe
But what I heard Devon Price say was that our society has a view of leadership and what that looks like. It looks like somebody, you know, having the money to cause change. It has. There's a social status to be bringing about that change. There is a level of intellect that must be on a level that is accepted by our social norms. Okay? And what I heard Devon Price say. And how I interpret what he said, Autistic leadership is going to look differently and because of how we think, because of, for example, our self-care, which is the personal side of our multidimension is how we look after ourselves, how we regulate ourselves. And then I would also interpret what he said about the social things that Autistics lead by our pathological demand avoidance. We are not going to follow these unjust rules. We are not just going to fit in with what everybody expects us to fit in on. So, what I think he meant there is that our leadership is not going to look the same as what the neuro majority, dominant culture expects leadership to look like. You know, we know, a lot of us know, on our own, in our own way, how to withdraw when we're feeling the weight of the change, when we're feeling the weight of trans bills that are being passed that we know are going to affect Autistic trans people. We are hearing the concerns that what's going to happen to our health care that we need to help with the supports we need. We're going to hear people rolling back the rights of gay and lesbian people to marry the person we love, and many of us are Autistic, where we need those supports from being legally, personally, married to the person we love. So how are Autistics going to be leading in these ways? And I love how he said, I am not going to be used as someone's tool of oppression. I am not going to follow this unjust rule. I am not going to accept this social designation that this is who they are, saying that I am, and therefore, you know, my rights are to be restricted. You know that sort of thing. And Autistics are absolutely excellent, even though we may not say out loud something like, I'm not just going to follow this unjust rule. I'm just there's we're just going to do what that comes naturally to us. And I just feel that that's exactly where our multidimensions meet right together, and because being Autistic is intersectional, this is where it is perfectly aligned with what we're talking about this year. You want to comment on that either one of you?
AJ Locashio
Well, you know, again, that's that intersectional thing. I think something that people don't assume we're going to do is we're going to have conversations. Yes. People are going to think based on, you know, biases and stereotypes. They're going to think that we are quietly going along and in the background. We are having fabulous conversations and creating the communities that we want, creating the communities that work for us and with us. The three of us are here today because of that. Right. Right? Because you created Today's Autistic Moment to have these conversations. Because Jessica and I started Umbrella US and started having these conversations out loud, we don't lead like people might think we lead. We don't have this hierarchy that says I get to make all of the rules and I you're going to listen to me no matter what. Right. No, we are engaged in conversation. We are very aware of our culture. Yes. We can articulate our culture, and we are asking other people who have different intersections from ourselves, how that specific intersection and the culture that it belongs to intertwines with their Autistic selves.
Philip King-Lowe
Right. And as you have articulated to me, behind the scenes, in our conversations together, as we're planning things. We take it upon ourselves to change the rules for us so that we can begin the process of changing the rules that society is making okay? We don't change it by, you know, speeches written and given to 1000s of people to cheer us on. We have those conversations together with each other in those safe spaces. Today's Autistic Moment is a safe space where we have these conversations together, you know? And it's through these in-depth conversations that we are leading change. We are creating those ways to Navigate the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership. Go ahead, Jessica, what do you have to say?
Jessica Jahns
Well, it's about cocreating. Yes. Right? It's about inviting people with whom you have things that are different, right? Right. And bringing more people in, because more perspectives in in the decision-making process is going to lead to a more equitable decision right in the in the outcome, right? And leadership has nothing to do with command and control. Right. That's, that's a lie. Yeah, all you need to be a leader is somebody liking what you're doing and following you. Right. And you know you have built a following with your podcast that makes you a leader. Yes? Well, thank you. And, and that's what we're trying to do with Umbrella, is build a following, and I think we've been fairly successful at that over the last just under two years. And you know, we're doing the things we're being the future that we want to see. Right. Right? Yes, and I think that it's actually a future that a majority of people would want to follow. Autistic or not. Because we lead with integrity, and we lead with honesty. You know, there, there is a lack of authentic and, well, I'm not even going to say a lack of authentic leadership. There's a lack of integrity in leadership. And I think that's really what, what people are seeking, what they're, you know, desperate for out there in the world. And that's, that's the sort of thing that will bring power in the future, is, you know, living within integrity.
Philip King-Lowe
Right. Yeah, and then you said something again that Devon Price had also said, and that is that Autistics are really great at leading without the need for a hierarchical structure. Okay? We lead by having conversations like this one. We lead with the conversations that Carol Jean-Whittington has about burnout restoration. We are having those communications and those conversations through Scott Frasard's book about A Reflective Question to Ponder, to create those situations of dialog, so that we can have those conversations with each other and others to find out, you know, how we can communicate across our across our people, the people who are both for us, not really on our side, But people are questioning and how can we walk each other towards, towards some kind of common ground? You know, Becca Lory Hector is coming back in March to talk about how, how self-care is a personal form of Autistic leadership. Okay? We’re having these discussions without one group saying, oh, it's better to do self-care. It's better to write a book. It's better to create an organization. It's better to No, we're all kind of on this even level, just doing things in the way that works best for us, so that we feel like we're contributing something to the conversations. That's what it feels like to me. Go ahead.
Jessica Jahns
And that's the definition of belonging. Yes. Right? It is when you have a space and context where you can do the things that help sustain you. Right. And contribute back to the community. Right. It's, it's that form of connection building that people are really lacking out there in the world, I think.
Philip King-Lowe
Right. And Lisa Morgan likes to talk about the issue of thwarted belonging, that a lot of what leads many Autistics to suicidal ideation is the feeling of being invalidated, the thwarted belonging, that somehow, if you don't measure up to this standard of living, then you don't really belong. Whereas Autistics, as part of our navigating our future in the multidimensions of who we are, we are leading by saying
you belong. You're part of this effort from whatever direction you go for it. And it's important that in this time, when times are uncertain and there are things that are going to be happening that are going to be very difficult, it's going to be important that we find out where we fit in the role of leadership, to change those conversations, to change the rules. The culture that we are now faced with, didn't happen overnight. So, it's also not going to happen overnight that we work on how to how to turn that culture around. Autistics are part of turning those cultures around by being ourselves, accepting ourselves, celebrating who we are in all our multi-dimensional intersectional identities, okay? And so that's what we're talking about on Today's Autistic Moment this year.
After this next commercial break, we will talk about how being proactive is going to look different for each Autistic person and how to create places where the supports of each Autistic person are met.
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Segment 3
Philip King-Lowe
Leading into our second question though, we know that Autistics are engaging regarding Autistic leadership. So, you know, the question is, and we've kind of started to answer this already, how can we create the environments to affect that change? So, let's dig into that. Go ahead. AJ,
AJ Locashio
I can give an example when we started looking at how the structure of Umbrella US was going to affect us as well as our volunteers, as well as people who work with us, as well as our community members, we thought, well, we can't just create exactly what we want. We can't just say this is how it's going to be. I can't, as the executive director, go, here are the rules, and this is how it's going to be, and we're not changing it, and that's it. Instead, what we did was we partnered with a doctoral student who came in and looked at everything that we were doing and said, Here's what's missing, here's what we need to do. We created a somewhat of a strengths based survey that is ND friendly. So it's when we created it. We said it needs to speak to and be accessible to a variety of neurotypes. It also needs to be aware of where people are coming from. For example, I saw several of my students, who were English speaking and Spanish speaking, and they would help their mothers and aunts build community daycare, and they were doing all of the paperwork and everything in the background and having conversations with people, and they were 15 years old. And I would ask them questions about themselves, and they would say that they were caretakers. They wanted to be a nurse or a teacher. They never saw themselves as entrepreneurs, businesswomen. And so, when we created this quiz, we put it there so that they could see themselves in that and then we have conversations. Yes, I'm the executive director of this organization, and I have conversations with every one of our volunteers regarding that quiz to say, how can the work that you're doing with us help you tomorrow in a job outside of us? And there's no hierarchy there. We're just two people having a conversation that is helping them be leaders in their own lives and helping them realize the leadership potential that they have. Maybe their culture doesn't tell them they have access to. That maybe the overarching culture at the school that they're going to, or their place of work doesn't allow them to have that. So, we are starting those conversations with them. We're turning that little light on so they can start exploring and become aware of themselves. That's how we become leaders, and that's how we engage these folks in these conversations.
Philip King-Lowe
Yeah. Well, what you're talking about is what Zephyr spoke about, about Autistics collaborating with Autistics. You need to be very intentional about the supports that people are going to need, and you need to be intentional about looking at how you're going to supply those supports.
AJ Locashio
And you can't assume the supports based on somebody's label that's on them. That's right. You have to give them the opportunity to engage, because they may not even know what supports they need, want, desire, so you have to have conversations. And to me, that's not up to somebody else in the organization. That's up to me to do that.
Philip King-Lowe
And that's where you know, one of the harder things for a lot of us to do you know is that, you know, as Autistics, we often have to hear from another Autistic, hey, this is not working for me. And then we explore, okay, how can we make this work for you? What are the supports you need? Because we know that part of the problem is Autistics and various other places are trying to tell people what supports they need, but they're getting told, Oh, you shouldn't need that support. Mm, hmm, you know, and if you do, then I, you know, "there's something wrong with you." We're saying the supports that you're saying that you need are important to us as they are important to you. We just need to talk together and collaborate together. How do we create that space, that atmosphere, for you to have the supports that you are needing? You know, Jessica, what do you go ahead?
Jessica Jahns
So, I go back all the time to thinking about the concept of supports or accommodations anything like that. And really that's what the context of an organization should be there to provide. Right. Right in our in our ideal world. And this is how we built Umbrella. The somebody comes in and immediately gets to take this, you know, skills assessment, to find out what it is that they're skilled at and where they might find challenges, right? And then the context is the organization fills in for those challenging things, right, right? And it could be some of those, some of those job tasks are done by AJ because she's already doing them, or some of them might be done by me because I'm already doing those things right, and so it could just be a function of information sharing. Right. Like, how do we get you the information in order to help you function better in your job? And the difference between Autistic people doing that and other people doing that is the label of Autism and the implied label that your deficits are your own problem. And the organization is not going to help you with that.
Philip King-Lowe
Exactly, yeah, and that's, that's one of the, one of the things that we are really concerned about as we see more and more companies starting to roll back their diversity, equity and inclusion programs, because what they're essentially saying is your needs are no longer important to us. Which leads me to a question that I'm starting to ask that I think is worth us exploring, is, were those DEI regulations or supports? Were they genuine, or were they conditional? And I'm starting to feel like they were more conditional than they were genuine. Because as long as the support supports the needs of the corporation or the organization, fine, but now that it no longer does, because it creates a public backlash. Now it's no longer important to us. So, you know, I mean, this is where we've always said, you know, Autistics are cultural, and we are seeking, relational, personal, social and engaging. Um, we know that when a lot of us get the rejections because they don't want to supply that diversity, equity, inclusion programs, those methods to be sure that there's room for everybody within the space. Autistics, because we are intersectional, we are looking for ways that we can have black Autistics or Autistics who are Latino, or Autistics who speak different languages, who will have different cultural needs. We are looking for the ways that we can we can give you those supports. And so, this is where I see Autistics leading in a marvelous, marvelous way. Because the Autistic community is very open about our diversity, even though we have those pockets of things, we really need to do better. You know, we really need to have these conversations about how black Autistics have often been let out of conversations, because, as Precious Lesley said, if we're going to see the positive change we want to see, we need to have them at the table, providing their input and taking them seriously, not dismissing them or minimalizing their concerns. We need to have them at the table, talking and actively listening. At the same time, we also have our transgender folks who are who are going to really be feeling that punch from all this, you know, we know that their gender identities are now in in mortal danger, and that it endangers their quality of life and also their safety. So, we want to bring those voices to the table and say, well, society and your state are not listening to what you have to say. We want to hear what you have to say because we want to find ways of giving you those supports in a culture and at a time when you're not just not receiving them you know, which may mean that we just you know, validate, validate you and share in your grief, share in that pain that says I need gender affirming care and I can't get it. You know, we probably won't be able to change the laws and rules, but we can certainly be with them and do try to do something, even if it's again, just being there and validating them. You're right. This is not right. You're right. This is painful. We understand that. So while we may not be able to effectively change what the government may be doing, we can certainly change it by giving you somebody who's listening and saying, your pain, your experience, it's real, and we're here to affirm that for you and be there with you and see how we can support you in the best way we can. And I know that Autistics are more than capable of doing that. We have proven it over and over again, and you know, as I wrote, and something I haven't spoken about is that when I was putting together that that 100th episode, and I was starting to hear all of the different conversations that we had had. I started to get a little emotional, because for me, all the whatever I may have given to the Autistic community that brought Autistics together to talk openly about these are the things that are happening to us. These are the things that are happening. I found that they gave me a great gift of trusting me to provide that space, number one and number two, they came to that space to share with me, to share with my audience, things that they can't share or don't feel comfortable sharing otherwise. And that gave me community that I had never really had. And that's what made me emotional. It really did. It made me feel like, wow, look what they've given me, you know.
AJ Locashio
You're talking about interdependence. Yes. Right? And, you know, Jessica said, “cocreating” earlier. And when, you know, when Jessica and I came up to talk with AuSM, we talked about that interdependence that we have, because Umbrella is what it is, and today we are who we are as individuals. Because of each other and because of our interdependence, not codependence, but interdependence, where we, with authenticity and integrity, are able to say, I need this from you. What do you need from me? And we're able to, in a harmonious way, work our way through this life, right together?
Jessica Jahns
And I think that comes from actively being conscious of things that we used to be ashamed of, right? Like in my context, in my day job, much of the time that I've been working there is less so recently, and now I'm going to get emotional too, because, you know, that's what I do, is I get on things. And I cry. I would be afraid to ask for something that I knew that other people would say, you know well, you should know that already, right? Or I sent that to you last week, or, you know, whatever sort of dismissive thing, like they cannot be bothered when I'm running five minutes late, and I clearly don't have what I need, and all I want to do is be able to show up and be prepared. And I've failed at that. I already know that I've failed right? Five minutes before we started this Zoom, I asked, AJ, God, I can't find the Zoom link. Can you just send it to me? And she sent it to me so that I could be here on time, because I was trying to be on time, right? That part is important to me, being present where I said I was going to be, and keeping that commitment is important to me. What fails me sometimes is keeping track of all of the links for all of the things that I said I would show up at.
Philip King-Lowe
Yeah. I can see how that would be unsettling, if that's a fair word to use, I can finitely see that, yeah, well, you made it. You're here and we’re glad you are.
Jessica Jahns
Well, but you give you provide this safe space so that we get to have these conversations, so that we get to talk about. That's right. You know the effect of shame, Mm, hmm, and the effect of being able to find a place where you can be interdependent.
Philip King-Lowe
Since we're we are talking about interdependence. Let's talk about how Autistics are leaders throughout their lives in their unique contexts. You know, we have already been, you know, talking a lot about that. But, you know, again, Dr. Devon Price was talking about how we create spaces like this one. We create those spaces like groups on Discord where you can say, this is what's happening with me. You get to connect with people in other parts of the world that to kind of share your notes, if you will, or to be in that space where other Autistics are really feeling the weight of some employer who is clearly taking them to the point of being broken. And those kinds of things, we're good at creating those spaces. And what I'm really talking about in season five is how Autistics become proactive leaders. This is where I want to say a little bit more about what I'm looking at in this year. Autistics, rightly so, are often placed under the radar of the vulnerable adult. We often need those protections from the law to basically say you're a vulnerable adult, therefore somebody misses misuses or abuses you have the right to these protections. But sometimes what those words mean vulnerable adult, implies that with if we feel something has happened to us that was inappropriate, unjust or just wasn't what it was supposed to be, that we're just somehow supposed to lay back, take it and deal with it, get on with life. And, you know, don't worry about it, that sort of thing.
Well, to be proactive, at least how I define it, and others will define it differently, means that we're taking when those these things are happening to us, we're taking steps to, number one, look after ourselves. That's where our self-care comes in to deal with those raw emotions, whether it's through crying or being angry and vacuuming the rug for a thousandth time, like AJ, does you know that sort of thing, or just either talking with somebody, getting it out of our system, and then sitting back and taking a look at what options might I have to be proactive in changing these circumstances? This is where sometimes, and I know this is all, this is not always available to everybody. If you're having trouble being employed by an employer, that may be a good instance where you can start thinking about is self-employment the better thing for me, and if it is, what am I going to do? Is it a matter of, okay, are there some supports that I can look out for to see if I can find something that's going to work? If I'm having trouble, if I don't sorry, if I don't communicate like other people think I should, are there some supports that I can look at that will help me communicate like someone who can be an interpreter or someone who can, you know, aid me with that support to say what I need to say? Or, you know, I know other Autistics that you know they simply cannot make a doctor appointment. No, no, no, no, they can't do it. So, I'm going to get somebody to help me make that appointment. Okay? And I'm going to have somebody with me who will help me understand the forms that I'm signing. You know, what am I reading? What does it mean? I'm going to have those supports, and then also finding ways of putting yourself in a position that you can pursue what you need in the here and now. Those are examples of how we become proactive. You know, yesterday, Jason and I had to do something very painful. And that is we had to draft our wills and draft our powers of attorney in such a way that should marriage equality become something that's been overturned. God forbid that that should happen. But that we have also named each other as each other's domestic partner, so that we can still look after each other's medical needs, or, you know, be able to get our, you know, our wills taken care of, so that our spouse is given the rights to, you know, handle our estates and things like that. That was a very painful thing to go through because of all the work that we had done to bring marriage equality about. But that was also one of those ways that we were proactive, that if this change should come, we are still remembering each other, that we have this love and commitment with each other, and we're going to guard each other's right to have a say in what happens to our health care decisions, or what happens in the event of our death, what are they going to have access to.
After this final commercial break, my guests and I are going to talk about the collaboration of Today’s Autistic Moment and Umbrella US to give you additional resources to help through these challenging times. Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board will follow.
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Commercial Break III
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Future Shows
On February 9th, Shalese Heard the Autistic Travel Goddess will return to Today’s Autistic Moment for What Black Autistic Leadership Looks Like. In a time when racism, sexism, ableism is socially acceptable, what does Black Autistic Leadership look like? Shelese Heard will explain more about this on a special show during Black History Month.
On February 23rd, Kala Allen Omeiza will be my special guest for the episode Black Autistic Leadership in a Time of DEI Erasure. The U.S. Government and many companies are pulling out of having diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. The programs were created to help do some checks and balances to alleviate discrimination. The programs are being pulled back by claiming they created more discrimination in the settings they were designed for. How can black Autistics lead with all this going on? Join Kala Allen Omeiza and I for this insightful conversation.
In March, Carole Jean Whittington will be here to talk about What is Autistic Leadership. Becca Lory will also be here to talk about Self-Care Is Personal Autistic Leadership.
Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.
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Segment 4
Philip King-Lowe
Being proactive is going to look very different for each Autistic individual. So, what are some other ways that Autistics can be proactive?
AJ Locashio
Well, Umbrella US is something that came out of that proactivity. For me, being late diagnosed, and having experienced diagnosis of ADHD 20 years ago, 25 years ago, knowing the process that I went through that as a female when it was not popular to be diagnosed with ADHD. When it was not understood what ADHD looked like in girls and taking that experience and bridging it over into the late diagnosed Autistic experience and saying, just like when I was diagnosed with ADHD, there were no supports in place. And here I am an adult in my 40s, and there are no supports out there for me to help me. And I also know that there are many, many people speaking of intersections. There are many historically and systemically marginalized individuals who don't have access to diagnosis. So, we wanted you to know, immediately I started looking for what supports are out there? There aren't any. Fine, I'm going to create it. And now here we are, and we are creating those things. And just like you said, somebody to help fill out forms, somebody to help make doctor's appointments and navigate the systems. This is what we are here for, and this is what we are creating. First in one place that happens to be Wichita. And we are working with different people around the U.S., like in Portland, to create these small things with the intention of them being replicable, so that they can be throughout the U.S. Not only for Autistic people, but for all Neurodivergent people. Which means one of our LGBTQ elders who has experienced significant CPTSD throughout their life. How do they navigate the mental health system in a time when we've got this administration change that is harming us? You know, these are the kinds of things that we do to say in order for other people to access resources, to be proactive, there has to be a space for them to access resources. So, we're starting that we that's what we're doing. We're building that it takes time. So, what Autistic leaders can do is get curious as to how they can work within that. With AuSM, with Umbrella US, with other maybe local organizations that have been started in their communities. Maybe they want to start their own, but they don't know how, so they contact us and say, What did you do? Can you help me do the same?
Philip King-Lowe
Yeah, absolutely. Yep, that's well said. Jessica, what do you think?
Jessica Jahns
I'll just echo everything AJ said about how Umbrella US came about. It was the same thing for me, where my identification story came about due to stuff that happened to me at the day job, you know, the context was changed around me, and it completely threw me off my game and made it impossible for me to work. And I, once I figured all that out, I was able to adjust. And then the pandemic happened, and then we worked from home forever, and so those sorts of things helped me, but I made a commitment to myself that I would be dedicating time and attention and energy into preventing those situations from happening to other people in the future, and when I made efforts in that direction within my day job community, I quickly learned that that was not a context that was amenable to that sort of change, and so I had to go outside of that. And, you know, all of our work has been really rewarding for me, even though I don't feel like, you know, I contribute as much as AJ says I do, and I'm sure she feels the same way. You know, we just really compliment each other like that very well, and you know, we're looking forward to building more relationships where we can be a model for other people who have similar experiences or who want to put more energy and attention into helping others in their community in that sort of way. Because it really is. It's this co-creation thing, right? Like, we're not going to know what somebody in South Carolina needs who has a different intersectionality, a different form of Neurodivergence. But we want to help them build community, if that's what they're interested in doing. And it's all about all of these words that we've used the interdependence and the cocreation and all of this stuff. You know, people rely on each other for things all of the time. And you know, we just want to facilitate that as much as possible.
Philip King-Lowe
As part of my closing, I am pleased to share with my audience that Today's Autistic Moment and Umbrella US are partnering this year. And the purpose of that partnership is to have our ears to the ground about the things that are happening to Autistic Adults in all of our multidimensions and intersectionalities. What's happening within those communities and the supports that we may be able to find and may be able to give to our Autistic audience. You know, those, those things that we're finding that might be needed. We might stumble upon someone who's creating apps or creating spaces and/or even, you know other chat groups where Autistics are meeting. Whether they be on Discord or Telegram or some other form of communication, as well as talking together behind the scenes about some advice that we might want to share with all of you as to how you can be proactive in your multidimensional Autistic leadership. Because we know that one of the most important parts about leadership is sharing information, is letting people know. This is what's now out there, and this is now what we want to provide. And this is kind of just a just a snapshot. Because as we work through this time, we are going to find other, other points of reason, maybe some major setbacks, maybe. What I'd like to see is that we talk about those things, what they're going to mean for our community, and maybe look for again, people within our community who are using this information to make a difference so that Autistics don't feel like they're alone. That's one of those things that I really want us to really work hard at in the sense of we want to assure Autistic Adults that in the midst of this time of radical social upheaval and change, that you're not left alone. If you, especially if you don't wish to be alone, that if you wish to know, what might I do? Whom might I be whom might I talk to, and how might I find the people I need to find to help me go through this period of time? This is why I recommend people like Lisa Morgan. If you are going to find yourself in a time of crisis where you're feeling suicidal ideation, you contact Lisa Morgan, and she will guide you through that process. That's autismcrisissupport.com. If you need life coaching, we have Michelle Markman. We have Matthew, the #actuallyautistic coach. We have people at we do have people at the Autism Society Minnesota and in other places for life coaching and the supports you may need to get through these times. So, this is some of the work, the collaboration that Umbrella US and Today's Autistic Moment is going to be doing. And you know, we are happy to do this, because I, as I say again, we don't want all of you Autistic Adults out there who are doing amazing work on yourself and in other ways that you've been, you know, gaining potential for your life. We don't want you to feel like you're alone in this time when there's disappointments coming along. And I think I can safely say that for all three of us, um, am I right about that?
AJ Locashio
Yeah, you can be alone as much as you like, but we never want you to be lonely.
Philip King-Lowe
Right. And we also don't want you to feel completely powerless. There's nothing absolutely we can do on so, you know, AJ is going to be here. You know, you can go to umbrella. Is it umbrellaus.org?
AJ Locashio
Yes, it is.
Philip King-Lowe
Yep. Go there, contact AJ. Contact Jessica. Contact somebody. There are people on the boards, on their boards that have lots of help that they can probably give you. Go there and find them, and so again, you know, if you like being alone, that's fine, but and/or lonely. But the point is, is that if you're feeling like, what can I do? Who can I reach? How can I work through this time when I'm just feeling the weight of having lost something that's so important to me? We want you to feel like you can reach out to somebody and either get that somebody to walk with you through the process or guide you to the resources you need to find the supports you're going to need. So, you know, so that's, that's why we're collaborating this year. And, you know, by all means, reach out to me, reach out to AJ, reach out to Jessica, reach out to the people you need because and go ahead.
AJ Locashio
You know one way that people can stand up as a leader or sit down as a leader, however they want to, they can do that simply by sharing local resources. Yes. That they've used. If they share those with us, then we can share those on our platforms, and they have now been a leader to ensure that that information is getting out to others.
Philip King-Lowe
Absolutely yes. So, okay. Well, thank you all for being here today, and we certainly want to reiterate, we are here to support you here. We're here to give you those safe spaces where those conversations are happening, and by all means, somehow, we're all going to get through this time together. So, please remember what I said at the end of my pilot. I said you were no longer alone in these things. Today's Autistic Moment is here to be with you and so is Umbrella US. So, with that, we're going to say thank you for joining us, everybody, and we will see you soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board
All these events and many others with their links not mentioned are available on
todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard.
The Adult Coffee Club is back for Autistic Adults in Minnesota. They are held on the second Tuesday of every month (weather permitting) at Dogwood Coffee located at 2700 University Ave W. Suite 100 in St. Paul, Minnesota. Zip Code is 55114. The Adult Coffee Clubs will be on February 11th. March 11th. April 25th. May 13th. June 10th.
Understanding Autism virtual classes are offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. The next classes will be on February 10th, 12-1pm. March 10th, 6-7pm. April 14th, 10-11am. May 12th, 12-1pm and June 9th, 6-7pm. Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.
Are you a professional who works with Autistic people? Such as a therapist, psychologist, occupational therapist, psychiatrist, social worker, case manager, or health care provider? Join the AuSM Professional Networking Group to work with The Autism Society of Minnesota’s Counseling and Consultation team that offers a resource to help you network with other professionals. Group sessions are held monthly. See AuSM’s Event Calendar for more information.
There are two workshops we want to highlight for you.
On March 7th from 9am to 11am Leah Kuypers will present the workshop What’s New with the Zones of Regulation? Updated approaches and Curriculum.
Beginning on Saturday, March 15th and continuing March 22nd and the 29th, from 10am to 1:30pm, Jillian Nelson will present the workshop Policy Power: Advocacy for An Inclusive Future.
Register today to attend the 30th Minnesota Autism Conference, April 16th through the 18th at the Doubletree by Hilton Minneapolis Airport Hotel, on 2020 American Blvd. in East Bloomington, MN 55425. There will be Keynote Speakers, in person and virtual breakout sessions, social opportunities, resource tables, and lots of community building activities.
Go to ausm.org to get more information about these and other social and recreational programs, educational events, counseling services and support groups at The Autism Society of Minnesota.
MNeurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing Neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections. Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect regardless of ability or preferences. Go to their new website mneurodivergent.org to find out about their events.
Today’s Autistic Moment is here because of the generosity of supporters and sponsors. Please go to todaysautisticmoment.com and select “Support Today’s Autistic Moment” to donate.
If you have questions about Today’s Autistic Moment, please send an email to todaysautisticmoment@gmail.com.
Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.
May you have an Autistically Amazing day.
♫ Closing Background Music with credits ♫
All of the guests meet with me on Zoom to record the interviews. The interview transcripts are provided by Otter. The podcast is prepared and edited on WavePad Masters Edition by NCH Software. The podcast is published by Spotify for Podcasters. The Music that you hear is licensed to Today’s Autistic Moment by premiumbeat.com.