Strength Based Self-Care in a Medical Deficit Culture Free to Listen

Transcript

Strength Based Self-Care In a Medical Deficit Culture

August 24th, 2025

Episode Preview

Being rule based, honest to a fault, excellent in problem solving and managing our sensory needs are the strengths Autistics have to be successful.  Carole Jean-Whittington and I will talk with Lisa Morgan about how you can use your strengths to find joy in taking care of yourself in this medical deficit culture.  This episode is to encourage you to make the most of who you are and what you can do.  Come find encouragement and positive energy on Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 1

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After the first commercial break Carole Jean-Whittington and I will talk with Lisa Morgan about Strength Based Self-Care In a Medical Deficit Culture.

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Segment 2

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Philip King-Lowe 

Well, hello, Carole, how are you today?

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

I am fantastic. Philip, how are you doing?

Philip King-Lowe 

I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. It's good to be here. Lisa Morgan, welcome back to Today's Autistic Moments. It's always great to have you here, so welcome back.

Lisa Morgan 

Thank you. Thanks. It's always great to be here and great to talk to you.

Philip King-Lowe 

Thank you definitely. Well, I am very excited for this particular show because our topic is Strength Based Self-Care in a Medical Deficit Culture, and we have been seeing so many things changing or reversing for the Autism community this year. And so, I think this is so great, because this is going to be the neuro-affirming show that we really need this year badly, given what's happening. So, among the reasons that Lisa is a great person for this is because Lisa's approach to the crisis work that Lisa does is based on the strengths of Autism. Let's find together those strengths and use them to find a reason to live, to find reason to really begin to find some peace in one's life, and to and to really move forward. So, I know this is going to be a great talk. So, let's build a foundation for our conversation today. And Lisa, let's talk about Strength Based Self-Care in this medical deficit culture we're in.

Lisa Morgan 

Sure. So, a lot of the strengths that I advocate to use in crisis support and just to be okay are actually what a lot of people look at as deficits, but they're actually strengths. So, for example, being adhering to routine can be very helpful when somebody wants to, you know, prioritize self-care, because they can make it into a routine that they will not then, you know, veer away from. Attention to detail. You know, can make something very, very personal, very, very detailed to what might help somebody to feel better. We usually are using that with safety plans and keeping people, you know, safe from self-harm or suicidal ideation. Fairness is also you know, people, Autistic people, tend to be fair and have a high social justice, which can be difficult in these times, but also can be used to be fair to themselves and prioritizing self-care. Tend to be creative problem solvers and think outside of the box. So, there's many strengths that Autistic people have that can be used for self-care.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

I would love to kind of back up just a spec, because Lisa, I would love to hear because I know, as an AuDHD woman who has alexithymia, and was in some degree of burnout for almost 40 years, until November of 2019, and I've been burnout free since. That's been life changing. But up to that point, I wouldn't have even recognized when I was in crisis or moving into crisis, because how I defined it was like it had to be catastrophic, and so I would love to kind of just let people hear maybe, how do you start to recognize when you're moving into crisis? Or how do you begin to define or recognize crisis for yourself in order to seek support.

Lisa Morgan 

Yeah, and that would be individual to each person, but there is in the DSM-V, there's what's called the Big T traumas, and then we have these little T traumas that are like social communication interactions, negative social experiences. It could be losing a friendship. It could be, you know, just surviving the environment at work or at school. Those are little T traumas, and they can actually develop into PTSD for Autistic people. It doesn't have to be one of those big T traumas. So, I would say, you know, a lot of times, especially with people with alexithymia, it's really behavioral. So, if you're having a lot of headaches, if you, you know, just notice your shoulders are really aching. You might have a stomach ache. That's some somatic symptoms. If you haven't texted somebody, you usually text in a while. You know, picking up on those behaviors can show you that you might be in trouble. You might need to really pile on some self-care, and, you know, take advantage of those Autistic strengths that you can use to do some self-care. One of them is, and a lot of people don't realize this, but the visual memory that we have, especially with crisis and PTSD, can be very difficult, because we remember every detail of something we may have seen or experienced. But along with that very visual memory, if somebody has that, you can make a place in your mind that's safe. So even if you're at work, you can, you can actually be in that space that's exactly designed for you to kind of, it's like you crawl up into your mind and you do the things you need to do during the day, you talk to the people you need to talk to, but you are kind of in that safe space in your mind which can be alleviate some of the anxiety and angst and sensory stimulation that comes in from those environments.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

I love that you led into that because that was my next question. If you know, once we start to recognize crisis, then you know the next, the next, I guess, phase or experiences to feel safe enough to even move into those strength-based areas. I love that you moved into that that safe space in your mind, because that really that, for me, was some of the early safety that I experienced was creating a space in my mind where I could go and I could have that experience and feel that physical response to that mental safe space in order to even recognize or move into anything that was even strengths based or self-care oriented. So yes, yes. And how do you recommend Lisa? That somebody maybe who is noticed they're in crisis, and they're saying, I don't feel safe. And that can be a whole host of things based on the individual, but what's usually a really good first step to sort of become aware of and start to claim or establish safety, a feeling or experience of safety for yourself so that you can move into those strength-based self-care practices?

Lisa Morgan 

Well, I mean, realizing that you are in trouble sometimes is part of the whole difficulty of getting to a safe place, like you said, with alexithymia, possibly dissociation, um, but once you do realize that you, you know, aren't doing the things that you normally do, it's taking longer to get out of bed, whatever it might be, um, you're withdrawing more, and it's not really regulating. Could is another one, I would say, starting to use some of those strengths would actually help once you've noticed that you're in need of some self-care, taking that break, allowing yourself that time, I personally in the, you know, sort of aftermath of my husband's suicide, I made rules for myself that would keep myself safe. So, rules work very well, routines, even sensory. Sensory is usually thought of as, you know, the sensory input is just overwhelming. But if you can get sensory, you know, comfortable, like homes are usually sensory wise comfortable, clothing can be, you know, eat, eat foods that are your same foods, your comfort foods have a nice smell in your home like anything like that is, is, you know, really moving towards being feeling safe, feeling more comfortable.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, you know, you just brought up a great point, Lisa, that I'd like us to talk a little bit more about, and that is, you see, for a lot of us, when we experience some kind of sensory input and that sort of thing, what starts in as a sensory information often is enters in our it does. It can bring back some trauma because of all the times that we did not allow our sensory inputs to tell us what's going on. So, a lot of the times we question what our sensory processing is telling us, we question, is it legitimate? Is it valid? And you know, we start going back to that the we actually experienced some of those trauma returns, of those moments that we were gaslighted for because of our trauma, our sorry, our sensory processing. Can we talk, for all many people in our audience who are experiencing that. Can we talk a little bit about how our sensory processing is one of those strengths that we use for self-care? I think that would be a great place to talk.

Lisa Morgan 

So, I mean, the sensory processing as being in a safe space would be, from my experience, would be to make, make the environment be in an environment that is both, you know, pleasant to see colors, even you know the other right colors. The smell is a pleasant smell. You're comfortable. You know, whether you have a weight on you, like a weighted blanket, a weighted stuffed animal, or, you know, just taking care of all of your senses. You have music playing that's, that's soothing, you know, so overwhelm yourself with all those pleasant, um, sensory experiences

Philip King-Lowe 

And doing that, you know, I've heard some call it a sensory profile, to know your sensory profile. And you know, there are some who part of their sensory needs that they are sensory seeking. Sample, I know one individual that part of their self-seeking is to do some exercises like jump up in the air, twirl around and or climb a climb a rock, rock, you know, rock climbing and that sort of thing. Or, you know, we just had that great show earlier this month with Michelle Markman. Michelle Markman likes to put herself on the side of danger, just so that she can get some of that sensory energy fed into her. That's some of those things. And you know your, I would say one of your most important strengths in your self-care is looking after your sensory processing needs. You know, way back in one of my first shows we were I was talking with Zephyr about Autistic Adults in COVID-19, and I remember that we said that there's that tendency in us to put off our Autistic needs because society is telling us there are so many other things more important. You know, we're having conversations about immigration. We're having talks about transgender people; we're having conversations about climate change. So, you know, why should you take why should we even talk about your Autistic needs? And as Zephyr said, it's always a good time to talk about and look after your Autistic needs. Okay? It's okay to put some other things aside that to take care of your Autistic needs.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Oh my gosh, my friend, you have just nailed one of the most important things, and it's interesting, and I love that we're sort of talking about the sensory area here, and I can't wait to hear Lisa's input on this. So, in the unveiling method, one of the tools that I use is a sensory profile blueprint, because 100% of research respondents said that they experienced a heightened sensitivity in one of their sensory areas during burnout, and what happens is how we experience our system, sensory system under elevated stress, and burnout is very different than in our well-being and optimum steady state. So, when we're under stress, when we're in crisis, our sensory system is going to respond differently, and so the things that we would sensory seek for comfort and calming and focus may be a little different, or we're going to gravitate maybe more strongly towards one particular sensory area. In the same way we become sensory avoidant, because some things can become too much, even painful in a part of our sensory system. And so, I always say, you know, when we're working with our burnout clients, when we're looking at your sensory system, sometimes it's, let's just start with what sensory seeking, because those are the things that are regulating you, that are pouring into you, comfort, joy, peace. And let's look at, how do we eliminate those things that are that you're avoiding, maybe just without acknowledging it? Let's kind of go through and find what is it that's really kind of great and on your nerves, what's draining you, what's really creating more conflict in in your safe, comfortable space, and how can we diminish or remove those? Lisa, please weigh in on this sensory area for our well-being and self-care.

Lisa Morgan 

Well, a lot of those sensory sensitivities that you might want to avoid could be right in your workplace, right and they could be taking care of your kids. If you have children, um, it could be on the walk that you're taking to as a self-care technique you're taking a walk. Um, so it is, it is difficult to try to avoid them all, and it and they seem to be all encompassing at times. But yeah, I can see we're focusing on, you know, one that is soothing at that point would be, be really, you know, the one the thing to do, you know. And like when Philip was talking earlier, I was thinking, yeah. So, if you are sensory seeking, perhaps you know you go and you're in martial arts or something, or some kind of wrestling or a sport, you know you go and do a couple more of those that week. Whatever you need to do to get in that, to regulate your senses.

After the next commercial break, we will talk about how you can use your tenacity in a culture that is seeking to invalidate who you are and erase your sense of safety.  Lisa will talk about some work she is doing to create a much-needed resource that will be available this upcoming Fall.

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Segment 3

Philip King-Lowe 

I think that's great and one of the thing, I mean, one of the things we must continue to bring in here, for those of us who you know, we have been so almost programmed by society to second guess our Autistic brains. You know, because we've been told that. You know, right now we're looking at someone trying to once again study an "Autism epidemic", which is ridiculous. And so once again, we're hearing Autistics being told to second guess your Autism. You know, there's some horrid reason why it's there, rather than it's the way we are, it's who we are. You know, we heard Joyner Emerick saying that, you know, “Autism is an innate characteristic of Autistic people." And so, among the reasons we're here having this conversation is because of the fact that those messages are once again in the public conversations, they're there again. And you know, as I mentioned in the special episode, my big concern with all of this is, is how it becomes, once again, socially acceptable in public conversations. You know, as I said during that Special Edition, I'm concerned about people having conversations with their neighbors, or people having conversations around water coolers and the Autistic person who's working in a place where they're hearing their coworkers having these conversations. And you know, it can really do a number on someone's self-esteem. And once again, start questioning themselves, because, once again, we're hearing those messages. Lisa, could you please talk a little bit about what are Autistic strengths we can use as we're hearing some of those messages. What are some things you recommend to, you know, using our strengths of Autism to cope with some of those things?

Lisa Morgan 

Yeah, well, you know what? What's happening are like, what you explained, hearing these things and have it be in, you know, everyone's conversation is we're constantly being gaslit. We're constantly being experiencing invalidation of our own experiences. And I am going to get to the answer of your question, but I just wanted to say that I am co-investigator of a study that just came out where 92% of the Autistic people in the study said invalidation increases their suicidal ideation. Lot of Autistic people who are, you know, traumatized again by invalidation, which is exactly what's going on right now in the public is we're being invalidated. So, as far as using our strengths as Autistic people, and knowing, I mean, it's very it's very difficult to hear from one person about yourself and knowing what you are experiencing and having it be invalidated over and over again, but just being honest with ourselves, right that this is our experience, this is how things are for us, you know, so being honest, maybe even start advocating, because that high sense of social justice that we have kind of using that as well as another strength is we research. We research everything that we don't understand. Many Autistic people have to understand. And so, we're going to do a lot of research, and we're going to get educated. So I think that between the fairness, the honesty, the researching things and this, the high social justice that we have can work towards, you know, advocating for ourselves, even with our neighbors, with our family, with our friends, with our coworkers, I think that's, you know, education has always been important to try to, you know, be who you are and not have to mask to be able to be Autistic advocate. Advocacy and education has always been part of that, but I think it's even more so these days.

Philip King-Lowe 

And the bigger part is actually getting people to listen to us and take what we say to heart, because, and that's one of the reasons why Today's Autistic Moment exists, because our voices are constantly either shut down or spoken over or just assume we don't know what we're talking about. And that's why I want us to talk about the strengths based because I you know, we need time to often get our thoughts in order. And then when we do present our stories, our experiences, people just they shut us down. They won't let us talk. Yes. And I know what you're talking about, Lisa, because we were talking about this in the chat on LinkedIn. We're talking about thwarted belonging, and that is really being, it's not only being promoted. It's being suggested that this is happening because we are "sick." You know what I mean, and those the messages that we know, we may know they're wrong, but we know I'm sorry. We know they're wrong. Forgive me, everybody my I'm talking as, I think. But the thing is, is that we know they're wrong, but there's still that something in us that it strikes again, those old trauma points, bam, and it can sink us for a period of time if we're not careful, you know. We do have a strong sense of justice. You're right. But I also want to return to what Joyner Emerick said in the Special Edition, that sometimes our desire to do something about the injustice may mean that we back off for a while and work on our strategy for doing that. Because sometimes, if somebody is really talking loudly, they're not listening, maybe that's not the time to tell them what we have to say. Maybe we need to take some time away and work on a response and that sort of thing. And that's okay.

Lisa Morgan 

Yeah, definitely. Um, rumination is another thing that is usually looked on upon as a deficit, and we certainly do feel it at times as a deficit. But ruminating on what the problem is how to solve it thinking outside of the box. I would say, even then, using our strength. A lot of Autistic people have strength in writing instead of verbally communicating. Writing is also a strength that we can use to advocate for ourselves. We can write so much better than we talk with our processing speed. We can take the time that we need. But so, I would say even ruminating can be used, and writing can be used and problem solving can be used.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

That's what I was thinking about as you were talking Philip, and as you were sort of bringing these up too, Lisa. I think one of the greatest things that we have in our community is how we communicate and connect in our interdependence, our belongingness with one another and with ourselves. I think that is such a beautiful strength that we have, because when we come together, you know, Philip and I, and so many of us have been part of this conversation that Philip hosted here around our Neurodivergent leadership and how we approach collaboration. And we don't have this hierarchy. It's how do we problem solve in that way? And I think we have those strengths collectively and when we come together with those to advocate and to raise a common voice for things that we all collectively say, Yes, this is part of our Autistic culture. This is these are things that matter to us and are important. Then I think we bring a lot of depth. We bring a lot of solutions and approaches that perhaps had not been seen, because there are a lot of us that, you know, we see all of the parts and pieces all at one time, and we see down to the very fine details. And then there are those of us who may not be the greatest writers, but we're wonderful verbal processors. And when we get together with some other Autistic folks, we're talking things through. We're solving problems as we're discussing them, because we begin to see things or process and those things kind of download and click into place as we talk it out. So, to me, I think those kind of strengths that we bring together are really, really special.

Lisa Morgan 

Yes, definitely. I'm, you know, part of an organization of Autistic adults who are informing research. And when we get together, I mean that, you know, whatever issue we're talking about is looked at in every single which way it could possibly be looked at. And we have some brilliant, really great solutions that come out of it. But the next part is having people listen, like Philip was saying before, you know, we can so we can think of different things. We can come up with some innovative, you know, problem-solving ideas, and we still need to get the people to listen.

Philip King-Lowe

And what we're talking about already is talking about engaging that Autistics are engaging in this Strength-based Self-Care in a Medical Deficit Culture. Because we really always need to be talking about the fact that, you know, in just about every intersectional identity, someone is Autistic too. You know, and especially with transgender people, just every single day I've been every single day, they hear something about them, their rights, their existence, is being questioned. And, you know, transgender people being told they can't compete in athletics, or there's some bill being passed that denies trans youth their gender affirming care and all kinds of things. Every single day, they wake up to something or go to bed after having read something, and the agony is just horrible. And you know, I want to go on record as saying to our Trans Autistic folk, you do not deserve this by any means. This should not be happening at all, and so. And the thing is, is that, like I say, when your supports are being cut, when you are being named, when something about your identity is being bitten, for lack of a better word bitten. You know, it can be really, really hard to dig into your strengths and so, you know, let me ask you this to maybe help us answer that question, Lisa, as you've been working with Autistics in crisis this year, I would imagine that you have been really talking with many of those intersectional communities, people who represent those communities. Can you share with us a little bit about the strengths that you've seen in them during this time and how that has been helping, helping some of those intersectional communities? Can you talk about that? Please?

Lisa Morgan 

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I have been working pretty closely with one person in particular, who has taken the position to, you know, advocate for the transgender, you know, community that are Autistic. What I've seen, well, what I've heard is some pretty intense experiences.

Philip King-Lowe 

I bet.

Lisa Morgan 

A lot of confusion, a lot of uncertainty, which is very hard for Autistic people in you know, at any time, what I've seen, yeah, and this particular individual is, is resilience, a lot of resiliency. And you know, the passion to change it. Advocating. So, and I do see that across kind of across the board with Autistic people, is resilience, even if they are going through a difficult time, even if that whole uncertainty piece is happening and they're, like you said, they're being erased. There's this, I don't know. It's just resilience. This is passion to kind of push back. And I see that as you know, having gone through so many painful experiences and coming out the other end with strength, and for the people who you know are really struggling, you know, leaning on those who do have the strength, you know, in collaborating with each other, keeping in touch with each other, I think is important, like Carole Jean mentioned, you know, working together, checking in, but that's what I've experienced is, you know, just horrific experiences, um, being met with this scent, this resilience that, you know, I don't know where it comes from, but it's just amazing to be a part of.

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, you know Devon Price said earlier this year that Autistic people are among the first to say, no, I am not going to be used as someone's tool of oppression, you know? And I mean, you know that resilience is from, and I know a lot of people are struggling with that word right now, but that resilience is also just saying no to the oppression and saying no to the systemic oppression. Because a lot of them are getting it from family, they're getting it from their communities, and Lord only knows where it's just like I said, for our trans community, it's everywhere, every day, every other day, whatever it's like there's something coming out about them. And there's also that lack of understanding as to how much of the Autistic community are trans, and therefore, you know, it is doubly painful for them, but somehow, they're just determined to not let this destroy them.

Lisa Morgan 

Yes. Well, the work group that I founded after my husband died by suicide, the Autism and Suicide Prevention Work Group. We have someone on there who is trans, and we've been working all summer, him, especially, and his husband and some of their friends have driven this, but it's going to be a resource for trans people to be able to know who to reach out for, as for self, you know, help, assistance, support, self-care, just what they're experiencing and how they're experiencing it. It's an amazing resource. Hopefully, we'll be, you know, putting it out there to the public soon this Fall, I'm hoping. But that's one thing I've seen, and they all have had, you know, really high experiences, as far as you know, life experiences, crisis, things like that. And it is difficult, I know with a lot of Autistic people who find that family, friends, you know, people at work, and they're just being invalidated all the time, which is a risk factor of suicide, along with thwarted belonging. You know, these are all risk factors for suicide. We end up a lot of times withdrawing from everyone at some point when it's sort of all around you. And then what happens is, you know, unfortunately, a lot of Autistic people do die by suicide. The risk is seven times higher than the general population. It's even higher for trans people with Autism and any kind of multiple identities, they we get to that place where we withdraw, and we either draw on our strengths by, you know, problem solving, by really looking at, you know, who we are as a person, and it's true, and our honesty, being honest with ourselves, and you know, we end up, we end up getting to that place and coming out, I think a little bit stronger. I think that is where that resilience comes from. But I do think a lot of us end up withdrawing, which is we do for self-care, and that's another thing that Autistic people do for self-care. But, you know, thinking about, during that withdrawing, what's going on? We're problem solving. We're thinking, we're ruminating. We may be doing other things of self-care as well, but we're thinking about problem solving, and what do I really want? And who really am I? And do I believe these other people? And that takes strength as well, actually, to come out the other end and say, you know, this is my experience. No matter what anyone says, This has been my experience. It will be my experience. I am Autistic and coming out against gaslighting. I mean, that's pretty amazing, right there, if you think about it.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

It really is. And please make sure you let us know when that resource comes out, because we did have a removal of all of the support in the trans crisis line access recently. So, this is a really tremendous project that you have going together, and we definitely want to make sure we get that resource out to our community, because it is so desperately needed. This summer, I was, I put together and directed a six-week program on self-care. And two, we had two wonderful speakers that came to share around trans self-care. And with that, one of the beautiful things that was shared around advocacy is self-care was, you know, sometimes we just don't have the energy, the bandwidth to advocate for certain things. But we can wear a T-shirt, we can be seen invisible in certain ways, in ways that that allow us to still hold our boundaries, you know. And as both of you were talking about strength, and, you know, we always think about strength as it can be that physical power, it can be that emotional strength, or that strengthen in the security of yourself and your belonging to yourself, and then that resilience, you know, how are we rebounding or recovering from stress, and how are we moving to the next thing and that recovery? And I was thinking about the intersect, intersection of self-care, strength and resilience, and it is when we say yes to what truly aligns with us, when we say no to things that are not ours, and when we can say not now, when we just need time to process, or we're not sure yet. And I think those three things, to not just have a yes or no answer, but to also have that, not now or not yet, there's a lot of strength and resilience and self-care that goes into using all three of those responses to anything that happens in our life?

Philip King-Lowe 

There's one part about trauma that I think we would do well to name, and that is when we tend to remember something that brought on trauma and stress, especially if it's something we go back to we were often there with only the strengths and abilities that we had at the time that that incident occurred. And so, here's a couple of things I've learned to do. And this does happen as we age, for some of us, but the point is, is that there's two things to try. One is that was then, this is now. And, you know, I find myself remembering certain things, at least in this time, in my mid-50s, where I say, Do you realize how long ago that was? And do you also realize that that person and that incident has nothing to do with where you are now, absolutely nothing. You know, we are so far away from that and that person, whoever they did, yes, it may be in your head, but no, it doesn't have to be there. You know, you can just say, you know, let it go. Let it go. You know. I also want to remind a lot of us Autistics that not only are we really good at clinging on things, but we actually are also very good that once we let something go, because we're done with it, we're done with it. You know, our exactly, I like the motion you're making. You know, you know, you know, rubbing our hands getting rid of the dust, that's right, we are very good that when we're done with something, it's over to just it's done. So, you know, you know, I mean, some of those practices could be writing down an event and then finding a safe way to destroy whatever you've written it down on. You know, a nice grill, a fireplace, I don't know, a shredder. You know that sort of thing. You know, find those, those ways and places. And by all means, when you're feeling anger, do something with that anger. I did a show about a year or so ago with AJ Locashio about anger management. You know, AJ is one of those people. She vacuums when she's angry, because pushing that vacuum cleaner just bets it out of her, you know what I mean. So, whatever your way of doing it, it's good. And to quote from our friend Becca Lory Hector, that sometimes our strengths means going through those things and telling ourselves, what are things you can't control right now, and paying attention to those things we can control, you know? And that's those are some of our great strengths. When we know what gives us joy, we do those things that bring us joy, and we indulge in them. Just enjoy them like nobody else can enjoy them. So no, and we're really talking already talking about interdependence, or interconnections, and you know, the thing is, is that let's talk a little bit about not giving into that inertia through our fight or flight modes right now, because we've talked a lot about the need to withdraw. But what are some things Lisa, we can do in that time of withdrawal, maybe that we can really use to talk ourselves back or to build on some of those strengths, because I know that sometimes, when I'm withdrawing, the very first thing I'm being confronted with is everything that's wrong.

Lisa Morgan 

Right. Well, what you can do is draw so, drawing out emotions. Drawing out how you feel. Drawing out thing to see it visually is one thing you can do, writing about it, also keeping record or keeping photos of the good things that happened in your life, so you can put the you know, what you're withdrawing from in some kind of perspective. So, I work on this book, and I put in things that people have said, or cards or, you know, pictures of things I've done that I really enjoy, pictures of animals, things like that. It's a book that would, you know, bring joy, I guess, would you could say that I can look at when I'm withdrawing. So, and also sometimes I spend time in that angst, and then I have a certain period of time so that that black and white thinking that people think is a cognitive distortion that allows us to let things go, like you were just talking about Philip, that also allows us to, you know, set a time, okay, I'm gonna have a pity party for like a half an hour. I'm going to stay in that angst and anger and for half an hour, and then I'm going to work towards looking at my book and kind of bring myself out of it, and I'm going to problem solve that can all happen while you're withdrawn.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Those are really fantastic. I have something I call my sparkly file, my sparkle file, and put all of you know, my little joy things that remind me of what's good. One of the things that we did this summer in our self-care camp was we had an artist come and she talked about ways that we can, just like visually represent just an emotion or a feeling, and then when we're ready, you know, we can, we can burn it, or we can. She even showed where she had taken a lot of her drawings and things where she was just expressing emotion in a visual or color way or shape way, and just kind of scribbles all over the paper. Put them in the blender, and then she turned them into beautiful pieces of paper, homemade paper, and then paint it on them. And so, you know, it's sort of this transformation that we can also do in that process, to know that we're still safe when we sit through things that don't feel comfortable in our body, and how we move through it to get to where we want to go, sometimes that's just sort of how I approach something.

After this final commercial break, we will thank Carole Jean and Lisa for this great conversation.  Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board will follow.

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Commercial Break III

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Future Shows

On September 14th, Paul Wady, an author, podcaster and Buddhist from England will join me for the episode: Dismantling Ageism.  Paul and I will talk about being late identified as Autistics in our middle ages.  Neurotypical and ableist society places expectations on what people should do at various stages of our lives. Autistics along with other intersectional identities live by different standards that we create for ourselves to tell our stories and support each other.  We will discuss how this impacts the availability of resources and the needs of the aging Autistic population.  Don’t miss this unique and exciting conversation. 

On September 28th Dr. Adam Hazlett, an Autistic tenured professor of humanities at Henry Ford College will be here to talk about Autistic Joy.  Don’t miss this show for an opportunity to rediscover the joy of being our authentic Autistic self.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

♫ Segment Beginning Music ♫

Segment 4

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, Lisa and Carole, thank you so much for this great talk that we've had. And I want to second what Carole Jean said. Would you please forward us the link for that, that resource that you're organizing, please, because we know that there's many people in our communities who could really use it. Yes. Thank you. So, Lisa and Carole Jean, thank you so much for joining us today, and I wanted to say that you can always find Lisa at autismcrisissupport.com if you are experiencing any kind of suicidal ideation or you're feeling like you know, the world is crashing in on you. It probably is. You know, do reach out to Lisa. You always hear Lisa's ads on Today's Autistic Moment. And please, by all means, reach out to Lisa. And of course, Carole Jean is always willing to be someone's friend when they need one. So do, do reach out to them. Lisa and Carole Jean, thank you so much for this great day.

Lisa Morgan 

Thank you, Philip and Carole.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Thanks so much. This was a great opportunity to really talk about things that matter.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Did you enjoy this conversation with Carole Jean-Whittington and Lisa Morgan?  Would you like to listen to the complete interview without the music, the first segment and no ads?  Go to todaysautisticmoment.com create an account and subscribe to the new Ad Free & Complete Interview Plan.  The subscription is only $12.00 a month or $144.00 for a whole year.  You can hear the first show in July with Lee-Anne Reuber Self-Care: Wellness for All Autistic Bodies.  You can hear the complete interviews with each of the speakers for the Special Edition: What We Have to Say.  You can also listen to this interview and the shows coming up once they are published.  Look for the logo Today’s Autistic Moment Ad Free Interviews. 

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All these events and many others not mentioned here with their links are available on

todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard.

The Adult Coffee Club for Autistic Adults in Minnesota are held on the second Tuesday of every month (weather permitting) at Dogwood Coffee located at 2700 University Ave W. Suite 100 in St. Paul, Minnesota. The Zip Code for your GPS is 55114. The Adult Coffee Clubs will begin at 4pm to 6pm on September 9th. October 14th and December 9th.

Understanding Autism virtual classes are offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. The next classes will be on September 8th, 6-7pm. October 12th 10-11am. November 9th, 12-1pm. December 14th, 6-7pm. Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

The Annual Jigsaw Puzzle Competition will take place in person at the Mall of America Huntington Bank Rotunda or virtually on Zoom on September 27th, 8:30am to 3:30pm. Competition groups are filling up quickly, so hurry up and register.

On Thursday, October 9th beginning at 8am to 12pm Beth Pitchford will present a workshop at The Autism Society of Minnesota entitled Now and Venn: AuDHD and Overlapping Neurodivergence.  Learn the basics of what AuDHD is as well as the strengths, challenges, and idiosyncrasies of being doubly Neurodivergent in this virtual workshop.

Go to ausm.org to download the Fall Programs Guide with information about these and other social and recreational programs, educational events, counseling services and support groups at The Autism Society of Minnesota.

MNeurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing Neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections.  Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect regardless of ability or preferences. Go to their website mneurodivergent.org for more information, become a member, volunteer and attend their events.

Register for MICC’s 8th Annual Independence 5K run/1-Mile Walk on October 4th at Donaldson Park in Richfield, Minnesota.  This is more than a race—it’s a powerful community gathering to support MICC’s mission to educate and guide Autistic and Neurodivergent Adults in creating and sustaining the lives they want to live. From competitive runners to casual walkers, enthusiastic cheerleaders to dedicated volunteers, everyone plays a vital part in this family-friendly event.  Whether you’re racing for a personal best or cheering from the sidelines, your involvement helps amplify Autistic and Neurodivergent voices, foster acceptance, and support lifelong independence. Bring your friends and families, lace up your sneakers, and be part of this most impactful MICC Independence 5K yet. Learn more and sign up at micc.org.  Donaldson Park is located at 7434 Humbolt Ave S, Richfield, MN 55423.  Check in is at 9:00am. The race begins at 10:00am.  Early registration is $30.00 now through September 5th. Regular registration is $40.00 September 6th through October 2nd. Registration on October 4th is $45.00.

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Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

May you have an Autistically Amazing day.

♫ Closing Background Music with credits ♫

All of the guests meet with me on Zoom to record the interviews. The interview transcripts are provided by Otter. The podcast is prepared and edited on WavePad Masters Edition by NCH Software.  The podcast is published by Spotify for Podcasters.  The music that you hear is licensed to Today’s Autistic Moment by premiumbeat.com.