What Black Autistic Leadership Looks Like

Transcript

What Black Autistic Leadership Looks Like

February 9th, 2025

Episode Preview

When looking up the definition of leadership, most dictionaries interpret leadership as leading an organization or group of people.  Autistic leadership is about taking the initiative to address our own concerns and help others to do the same to influence a culture of inclusion.  Shales Heard is my guest and will talk about What Black Autistic Leadership Looks Like.  Shalese will highlight the dual stigmas faced by Black Autistics, battling both racism and ableism within and outside their communities. Shalese and I will also talk about the challenges of internalizing societal messages and the importance of self-advocacy and resistance of systemic oppression. Welcome to this episode of Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 1

♫ Today’s Autistic Moment’s New Theme Song, Today is Your Day ♫

Today is your day on Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult. Where Autistic Adults get to be yourselves in a space that is safe and made especially for you. Come on in and have a seat or go for a walk. In this safe space you fidget and stim all you like.

This first segment of Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored by The Autism Society of Minnesota, known as AuSM throughout Minnesota’s Autism Community. As Minnesota’s First Autism Resource for more than 50 years, AuSM serves the whole state, the whole spectrum for the whole life. Visit AuSM at ausm.org.

Before we dig into today’s topic, I want to give some basic information about Today’s Autistic Moment to help all listeners find our many resources.

Please visit todaysautisticmoment.com where you can listen to the podcast, get transcripts, program updates, and read the guest bios pages. You can also visit the Adult Autism Resources Links Page. Please visit the Future Shows Page to read the titles, guests, and descriptions of all the shows coming up. The transcripts are sponsored by Minnesota Independence College & Community. There is a link provided to get access to a document form of the transcript without the purple-colored background so that you can print it without using up the ink on your printer. The written document has a font that is accessible for dyslexics. There are additional transcripts available in Spanish, German, French, and Chinese Simplified. The transcripts have hyperlinks that are mentioned by the guests.

Please follow Today’s Autistic Moment on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Blue Sky.  Join Today’s Autistic Moment Community Group page on Facebook for conversations and updates. Please subscribe to the YouTube channel @todaysautisticmoment to watch Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussions.

On Wednesday, February 26th at 2:00pm central standard time there will be a new episode of Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussion entitled: I am Autistic: I Am Not Disordered. Eric Garcia and three other panelists will answer some comments that were made last November that Autistics are not normal, and we need special treatment. Our panelists will talk about being Autistic as a unique identity and how we are not disordered. Though Autistics have disabilities because of the microaggression of ableism that society uses to marginalize Autistics, we do have strengths to achieve success that go unrecognized. This episode of Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussion will be live and recorded on the YouTube channel @todaysautisticmoment. 

One last thing before we get to the first commercial break. One of the multidimensions of being Autistic is personal self-care. One aspect of that leadership is to set good boundaries for yourself and communicate them with others around you. Create safe spaces where you can be with the people who support you best, or where you can be alone to regulate yourself. Your self-care is the way you look after your Autistic needs. Turn the social media off for a while, stim and/or fidget or spend time on your special interests and enjoy them. When you do your self-care, you take ownership of your own life and are true to who you are.  Never apologize for it, and don’t let others tell you that you are doing anything wrong.  

After this first commercial break, Shalese Heard will join me for our conversation about What Black Autistic Leadership Looks Like.

♫ Segment Ending Music ♫

Commercial Break I

Podcast Apps

Today’s Autistic Moment can be downloaded and heard on most podcast apps including Apple. Google Play. Breaker. Castbox. Overcast. iHeartRadio. Pocket Casts. RadioPublic. Spotify. TuneIn. Pandora. Amazon Music. Audible. Podcast Addict. Podcast Chaser. If you are looking for the transcripts, go to todaysautisticmoment.com, click on the episode you want to listen to and follow the directions to find the transcripts. 

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment

♫Best Care Ad♫

♫MICC Ad♫

♫ITI Assistive Technologies Ad♫

♫Segment Beginning Music♫

Segment 2

Philip King-Lowe 

Shalese, Heard, welcome back to Today's Autistic Moment. It is such a pleasure to have you here. So welcome back. Thank you

Shalese Heard 

Thank you for having me.

Philip King-Lowe 

I'm so glad you're here. We are starting, or we are in Black History Month, and it's almost an understatement that we are seeing a rise in it being acceptable to further marginalize and stigmatize Autistic Adults with ableism rhetoric, but we're also seeing a rise in racial rhetoric and one of the points that some guests have made is that you know for black individuals, you're feeling the punch of both and you're also feeling some exclusion in both communities. So, I think I want to talk about this from the perspective of Navigating the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership, because we want to talk about how Black Autistic Adults can lead in a time like where times like we're having. So, you know, I think this is an important topic to talk about in light of the culture and the cultural shifts that we are looking at, the cultural upheavals that we're looking at, yeah, so to start off, let's build a foundation for this conversation. What does Black Autistic leadership and the fact that is multidimensional? I mean, let's give this a foundation so that we can really build on this conversation. So go ahead.

Shalese Heard 

So, I would say that being Black and Autistic and in leadership, the thing that's unique about it is the fact that we're battling both stigmas. We're battling both communities to where we feel othered in, and that makes it challenging, because on the one hand, you're dealing with racism from general society, and you're dealing with ableism, and you're, you know, being othered by the majority community, right? And so even within our own community as black people, that's another set of challenges that we deal with too, because in the black community, unfortunately, Autism still has a stigma, mental health still has a stigma, and so we deal with being misunderstood from that community as well. And so, it's like we feel out of place a lot of times, because both communities, no one accepts us, no one you know is really receptive to us, and so that presents its own challenges.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, I do see that. And so, you know, I focus a lot on our intersectional communities, and here we have Autism intersecting with racism. Yes, people of color, if you don't mind, you know, blackness and lots of other intersectional groups here, you know, you know, we're seeing this on where microaggression is growing. You know, yes, as I say, we're seeing that these things have become more acceptable. You know, I uh, I think, last year, I remember we, I was talking with Precious Lesley. We were talking about health care and educational disparities for Black Autistic Adults. And one of the questions I had asked Precious was, you know, it feels to me like the rhetoric is becoming more intense and Precious' reply was, I don't know, as though it's becoming more intense, is that it's becoming more and more socially acceptable?

Shalese Heard 

Yes, what it is, I think it definitely is becoming more normalized. Yeah, I wouldn't say that it's intense only because it's only Yes, to a degree is becoming more intense, but the fact that I think the reason it's becoming more intense is because it's being more normalized. Yes, feel that something's normal, something's acceptable. They're going to keep doing it and getting worse with it.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah. And I have to go back to something. My, my friend Ellie Wilson, She's the executive director at The Autism Society of Minnesota. You know, there's a therapist there who's fond of saying that normal is a setting on a washing machine. It doesn't really refer to people you know, or single person. So, you know that the concept of normal isn't exactly helpful in a lot of these things.

Shalese Heard 

Yeah, like the concept of normal is very much irrelevant like that.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. And you know, um, yeah, absolutely, you know. And so. It goes back to the question, where do you see Black, Autistic Adults, being leaders, leading? You know, one of the things I find it's important for our audience and our guests to repeat. You know, thinking about how Autistics are multidimensional, we are neurological. We are physical. We are cultural. Awareness. We are Avoidance through Masking. Seeking. Relational. Personal. Social. Engaging. And I think when we're talking about systemic racism and ableism, which affects both communities, and then we have the LGBTQIA+ communities that are also part of these communities as well. And so, you know, what I want us to really go to is the fact that just because we're in a time when you know, the upheaval is so great, and as we said, it's becoming acceptable thinking about our multidimensional identities and the ways in which we live and breathe and communicate and all that you know. What do you think are the important ways that Black Autistic Adults can lead?

Shalese Heard 

You know that that is a heavy question, and the first thing that comes to mind is, I think that community, in our case, would be to lead, because we definitely need to set an example by having a community of like-minded people, you know, similar struggles, similar background, so that we all can relate and show that, yes, this is leadership. And at the same time, there are people out here that can relate to you. There are people out here who, you know, you can feel at home with, because we understand what it's like to be, you know, a part of these identities. So, I think community will be the first step toward leadership.

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, here are some of the things that you know, in my 100th show, I had Dr Devon Price, and my audience is going to hear me repeat this quite a few times, but I had asked Devon about how Autistics can be leaders here. And one of the there were so many great things that he said in there. Among them, was that Autistics are already really good at building safe spaces for ourselves where we can, you know, communicate with others who are like minded, like us, and also because of demand avoidance, we can first people to say, no, I am not going to be used to someone's tool of oppression. I am not going to be someone's reason to absolutely, you know, so, and that's part, you know, even when we're taking care of ourselves because we're feeling this, this, this horrible, you know, feeling of having our identities, you know, attacked and, you know, just the stuff that comes over social media with people being so mean. You know, we can be the first people to say, I'm not going to follow this rule that I have to sit here and read it. I'm going to let myself get away from it, and I'm going to, you know, find my people to exchange our experiences. And, yeah, we're going to find our ways to be leaders by just, you know, being who we are and celebrating who we are. So, I'll let you give some answers to that.

Shalese Heard 

And so, like you said about PDA, demand avoidance, that does help us to, and I think that goes hand in hand with the sense of rigidity and a sense of justice that we have. Yes. It makes us refuse to go all the things that are, you know, a tool for oppression or to be someone's, you know, I guess token person, yeah, because we have that

strong sense of justice, we're going to be against it. And so, I think in this way, it helps us to stand firm on what we believe in, and to avoid masking, or to be more willing to unmask.

Philip King-Lowe 

What about in your local communities? I mean, what are some ways that you see, you know, black Autistics leading in local communities where you know, it can some it can be difficult to find each other, I imagine.

Shalese Heard 

So, I would say most of our in my local communities most of the time it starts off on social media or online, because we, from my experience, and I know I speak for myself in this situation, and a lot of Autistics that we tend to communicate heavily online and find it, find our community online. And so, it starts off that way, yeah, leads off to us meeting in person and, you know, having local events. So that's one ways we could that. I've seen it happen. It starts off online and eventually becomes an in-person ordeal.

After this next commercial break, Shalese will share some resources like Facebook groups where Black Autistics can find some community support and validation. Shales will also talk about the importance of creating environments where the Black Autistic Culture can find leadership among each other.

♫ Segment Ending Music ♫

Commercial Break II

♫ Lisa Morgan Consulting Ad ♫

♫ The Autistic Coach Ad ♫

Today’s Autistic Moment is the best podcast where our intersectional communities are well represented through creating safe spaces for in depth conversations like Shalese Heard and I are having today. I am working to be sure that I maintain this podcast where the voices of Autistic Adults are front and center. I need some help from all of you to maintain Today’s Autistic Moment podcast equipment and software running in tip top shape.  Please go to todaysautisticmoment.com and click on “Support Today’s Autistic Moment.” You can click on the Ko-fi icon to make a one-time donation. You can also tap on the Patreon icon to become a monthly subscriber. Donations to Today’s Autistic Moment are not tax deductible. You can also support the podcast by going to the Logo Shop to purchase a 16 oz drinking cup or a lapel pin. 

Thank you for supporting Today’s Autistic Moment.

♫ Segment Beginning Music ♫

Segment 3

Philip King-Lowe 

Okay. We know that Autistic Adults are engaging regarding this topic of Black Autistic leadership. How can we create the environment to affect change? You spoke about social media as being a place to begin dialoguing with one another. You know, what are some communities can you share with our audience? Some online groups where they might meet other black Autistics to talk about how ways that you can lead, that you can get some encouragement from one another to validate each other? Because we know that one of those things that's very difficult is to feel like you're being validated today, go ahead.

Shalese Heard 

So, there's a few groups I'm a part of on Facebook. One of them is called Black Autistics, and it's full of people who are Black and Autistic as well. And then there's The Hidden Army that's full of indigenous blacks, LGBTQIA. Yeah. There's that as well that I'm a part of. And there are also, there's also this other influencer and another group. He's it's called the Black Autist. He is called the Black Autist, and he has groups all the time, you know, for Autistic leaders who are of color as well. That also includes other minorities and not just black Autistics.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah, I have followed that individual. I probably to connect more with that person, actually, yeah, but that's really important, you know, that you have that place where someone says, you know, I'm having this happen to me, and someone's actually going to validate you, they're not going to minimalize your experience to you know, reply with, yes, I've had this happen, too, and this is how I felt, and this is how I dealt with it. And you know, this is part of that resistance of being used as someone's tool of oppression. Because you gather together and you kind of draw that strength from one another. Share in your Autistic experiences. You sit sharing your experiences of being of other races, of other minority groups, and any of whom we don't know. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, when we talk about intersectionality, it also includes those of us who are multiply Neurodivergent. ADHD, dyslexic, and all these groups of people, we are all part of the same we are part of the same community of people, but we're still trying to find our place where we can swap ideas and swap needs, and, you know, say, Hey, someone's broke and starving. So where do they find the resources to gain, you know, assistance with that, you know, and that's where I would point some many to Oluwatobi Odugunwa. They are involved with the Autistic People of Color Fund, where they do assist, you know, with some financial supports if needed. So go ahead and talk a little bit more about that, as you wish.

Shalese Heard 

So, the supports you know that I think that we need as well is, really important that we have a place like, like you said earlier, that we don't have to feel invalidated about our experiences. You know, a safe space is what we need. And I also think that I wish that we have more of that, because I feel like even online, it's not enough of these spaces. And so, we definitely need more of these and also even online, there needs to be more of us openly talking about and being feeling safe to discuss these things that people want to minimize about what we go through. And like you said, as well, I did not realize the Neurodivergent Spectrum was way bigger, you know, than ADHD and Autism. So apparently there's a whole umbrella of Yes, Neurodivergence. And so there needs to be more groups as well. That includes this umbrella, because what we're seeing mostly online is just, you know, Autism and ADHD. But we're not seeing enough of the whole umbrella included as well.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, that umbrella, I think, is going to get even larger over time. Goes on because

Shalese Heard 

I agree,

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, we're seeing, we're seeing, we're seeing, like, people with OCD are actually being added to these, yeah, yeah. And also, complex PTSD is kind of beginning to come into that, you know? And the thing is, you're right. I mean, we love Autistics and ADHDers, but that umbrella is larger, and it's for me being gay and that sort of thing is kind of nice to know that I'm part of more than one, one group of people who have a, you know, the alphabetic letter I that go, you know, the growing, you know, alphabet soup sort of thing, yeah. So, you know, um, yeah. We also want to be talking about interdependence, yeah, here, yeah. And this is where we want to, I want to kind of see if we can open the door for some conversations about how Black Autistics are leaders throughout their lives in their unique context. How can our Autistic communities become more aware of the Black Autistics that are among us? I mean, again, going back to Precious Lesley, she had said a couple years ago that, you know, we need to have these discussions about how the Neurodiversity movement has been whitewashing, quite frankly, yeah, also need to be having more conversations about, you know, ableism, and, of course, how some people say, You know, it's very difficult, actually, for a Black Autistic to get a diagnosis, because of how the DSM is written, and also because, you know, things such as, you know, Black Autistics are very blunt in the beginning period. And so there are people who and so are, you know, most of the black community is very forthcoming, so sometimes it can be difficult to believe somebody or, you know, we say you can't possibly be Autistic because they're so forthcoming, or that sort of thing, when that's part of your cultural identity as well.

Shalese Heard 

Right. But this is where it becomes complex, complex for the simple fact that, you know, all the research on Autism out there, as you see, is based on white, you know, culture and European culture, right? So it's just becoming, it's only a recent phenomenon that black Autistic Autism is studied, you know, like now, they're just now looking at the fact that Autism may present differently in black people because of our culture and because of even with other races of people like Autism presents differently for us because, you know, it's a mixture of cultural as well as neurological behavior. And so, they are starting to understand that in research, and I think that in order for us to un whitewash Neurodiversity’s, we need to put more focus on understanding that Autism looks different every culture.

Philip King-Lowe 

Right. Exactly

Shalese Heard 

Focusing and narrowing down on the white you know, how it presents in white people, we need to also realize that it presents differently in other races of people. And a lot of stereotypes, like the black stereotypes, do tend to be Autistic, but they've, they've stigmatized it to the point where it's bad, but it actually is just, you know, Autism presenting itself in black people.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. And, you know, what are some ways that you advocate for yourself with things like that?

Shalese Heard 

So, for me, I I'm honestly very straight up and forthcoming, and I just tell it like it is. So that's, that's one of the things that I do to advocate myself like I advocate for myself. I not only do I present research and I also present my, you know, history, I present my struggle, and I'm very open and honest about it, but I also let people know that not all of us are the same, and that just because I may look normal to you or I may look defiant to you does not mean that that's what it is. And so, it just, for me, it comes down to just being straightforward and, you know, upfront about it, about my struggle.

Philip King-Lowe 

And how are you coping with a lot of that?

Shalese Heard 

It's not easy.

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, it's just, it's just the white supremacy stuff has really been getting it's just in people's faces right now, you know, yeah, I mean, I mean, how? I mean, how do you, how do you cope with that, and how do you respond to stuff like that? I mean, this is where I feel like black Autistics, like you can give to us, who are white, some understanding of what that's like for you and how what are some ways that we can help advocate with you?

Shalese Heard 

So, for instance, I remember I was a part when I first was on my journey for Autism advocacy. This was about when I was 18 10 years ago. So, what happened? I was in the middle of a forum, and I was expressing my needs and struggle as an Autistic person, and it was mostly white. It was actually all white people in the group, and just because of the way I expressed myself, I was very blunt, I was very outspoken, and I did not back down. And I was very vocal about how angry I was about the injustice that I faced, and the white people in the group, they, you know, just misconstrued me as being aggressive, as being entitled, as being, you know, mean, and I was just misconstrued to be the bad guy, just because I'm a black woman who has Autism and I'm speaking out about things that I face. And so, what I did to cope with that, I simply called it out, like I called out the fact that, you know, if I was a white woman, y'all would not be treating me this way. If I was a white woman, you would believe me. If I was white you would you wouldn't be more willing to understand me instead of just dismissing me like that's I straight up called it out because it was the anger in me that, you know, I had to call it out because, you know, I can't cope with just letting something like that happen to me and nothing being said about it. So, yeah, like, I just can't let that happen. And so, I think white people can, what they can do to learn from us is actually to listen to us and remove themselves from the stereotypes they heard from us about us, remove themselves from, you know, what their family says about black people, and actually have an open mind when they listen to us.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, and I'm going to say this as a white person who's really had to learn a lot, and part of that does is just confronting the racism within ourselves. You know, for me, it was very much a lot of learned behaviors from my parents that the ways that they spoke about black individuals and just the language my father used, the language my mother used. And, you know, I also back in 2011 my husband and I, we were part of a host committee for the National Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Task Force when they had their Creating Change Conference here in Minnesota. And one of the pre-conference opportunities was to learn about white supremacy and to learn how, how much we have, how much rhetoric we use, and hear that really does speak racist language, but we don't think about it because we don't, because we're not hearing ourselves through the through the ears of someone who is black. For example, it's an example of gay community center somewhere, and there's a sign on the wall that reads, we are a white gay community center. We have a lot of black members. We are not racists. And so, we went through the process of explaining just how that sounds, because to us, it doesn't sound like anything, but actually what we're saying is that, you know, the black folks here would not be accepted unless we accepted them, as if they don't have the power to accept themselves, unless we do. We went through the process of explaining that when you say things like that, it really, there is a, there is a white supremacist culture behind words like that.

Shalese Heard 

Yeah.

Philip King-Lowe 

And so, part of this really comes down to facing the systemic racism within yourself, even if you think it's not there. Sometimes you need to think about the things you might say, like, for example, there are ways that a lot of us are unintentionally ableist, right. For example, when we say, you know, I'm giving an example here that, well, I don't have a hearing problem, you know, I and thank God I don't have that problem, okay, that it's unintended, but it's, it's very much ableist, yeah, yeah, and so and so. Some of it just comes from being willing to confront, listen to and then hear what you're saying, and as what you're saying is listening to the stories of Autistics from other racial backgrounds, just tell you what it feels like when they hear certain things said, feel free to go from there and see where it takes us.

Shalese Heard 

You know. And it just reminds me of, you know, for instance, when they I used to be amongst in the Autism advocacy groups, being the only black kid, you know, the only black person in the group, and I was labeled loud, I was labeled aggressive, and the white people that I was in the group with didn't realize how racist that actually was and even as a black person, having internalized racism because I didn't fully understand or like myself at the time, I even didn't realize I was dealing with, you know, unintended racism, or, you know, racism, I didn't always realize it was racism either. I just thought, okay, I don't know why they're saying I'm loud. I don't know why I'm saying it's aggressive, why they're saying that I'm aggressive, like I didn't know. But it took me getting older and realizing what racism was, because, you know, I was young, and I didn't quite understand the world around me at the time. But, yeah, so what? What it takes is that they have to be willing to unlearn these things, because a lot of things that you wouldn't expect are rooted in ableism and racism, even if you think it's harmless, a lot of things are rooted in that.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. You know, even the some of the things that someone might, might think I've to confront a lot of stuff in me. Things I still, every now and then, I still have to,

Shalese Heard 

A lot of it, internalize ableism too. Because, you know, for instance, I know in my own life asking for support, you know, like social supports and any type of work support, I was against it a lot of the times, because, really it was internalized ableism, like I believed that it made me slow, or I believe that it made me crazy or stupid to accept or get support. I actually, you know, was believing these things that were ableist about myself, and really that was dangerous for myself to believe in.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, absolutely yeah. Or, or internalizing some message that you know there is something wrong with you.

Shalese Heard 

Yeah. Which, to be honest, I still struggle with that, like this idea that something's wrong with me because I can't do things the way that my normal peers do them, right?

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, and to some of my Autistic audience, if you don't think you have any internalized racism within yourself, think about what happens when you're in a store shopping, you're in an aisle, and suddenly person of color turns the starts walking down the same aisle. What are the things you're thinking as soon as you see that person in that aisle? What are some of the things you're thinking when somebody approaches you to just ask you a question? Are you seeing them as somebody that's just coming up to ask you a question? Are you questioning whether this person is going to be violent towards you, just because? You know, you've heard that they can be, you know, violent, or they can, you know, start playing with your brain and just whatever I mean. Think about the things that you think about think so. Think about the things that you think when you're at a bus stop and there just happens to be other people of color there. Think about riding the bus. There are people of color on your bus. What are you thinking when you hear them talking to each other? What are you thinking when you know you say something like that individual is just trying to fleece the system, and that's why they're a big mouth about something okay? Think about those things that you think and ask yourself, is this really appropriate or even good, that I'm asking that I'm thinking that, and if you are, you know, it's a good, good idea to say, Gee, I never realized how much that was really affecting my thinking? You know, but I'm saying this to say, this is how we unlearn. One example I should say, of how we unlearn what we learned, you know, because, you know, there's something about systemic racism that is almost that is different from a lot of the other forms of discrimination we deal with. Because I've been feeling for a lot long time now that you know, even LGBT people, with all of the marginalization we feel, even Autistic people, a lot of the marginalization that we've experienced, we do experience, I feel like racism draws some of the worst of the worst within us. Oh yes. Or so than just about any, any bias that exists.

Following the final commercial break, Shalese will give some advice to other Black Autistics who are feeling defeated by not internalizing the messages of a system that is so messed up.  Right after that will be Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

♫ Segment Ending Music ♫

Commercial Break III

♫ Looking Forward Life Coaching Ad ♫

Future Shows

On February 23rd, Kala Allen Omeiza will be my special guest for the episode Black Autistic Leadership in a Time of DEI Erasure.  The U.S. Government and many companies are pulling out of having diversity, equity, and inclusion programs.  The programs were created to help do some checks and balances to alleviate discrimination.  The programs are being pulled back by claiming they created more discrimination in the settings they were designed for.  How can black Autistics lead with all this going on? Join Kala Allen Omeiza and I for this insightful conversation.

On March 9th, Carole Jean Whittington will be here to talk about What is Autistic Leadership? What exactly is Autistic Leadership? What does Autistic Leadership mean for each Autistic person? Carole Jean-Whittington brings her enthusiasm and energy to what is sure to be a great conversation that is sure to be an exciting approach to what Autistic Leadership is about.

Becca Lory will be here on March 23rd for the episode Self-Care Is Personal Autistic Leadership.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

♫ Segment Beginning Music ♫

Segment 4

Philip King-Lowe

I like to throw an idea of something like this out there. You know, what might you say to a Black Autistic right now who's feeling really defeated by a lot of what's going on? I mean, with the culture, the way we're headed and the current social political structures that are have obviously whitewashed everything, and is continuing to do so. I mean, I can imagine that you must have those moments where you feel and how do you deal with that?

Shalese Heard 

So, I will say this, a lot of us as Black Autistic people or people of color who are Autistic. Many of us internalize, you know, what's going on in the world? Because, number one, we tend to be the recipients of all the ill that comes through that. And then we internalize and thinking that somehow it's our fault, something about us that we deserve it. Why is this happening to us like we had it has to be something wrong with us. The reason that we're, you know, experiencing this, right? And so, what I would say is it's really important not to get caught up in internalizing it and realizing that you know you're going through these things because you're not. It's not because you're lazy, it's not because you know you're horrible or you're a criminal or you know that you're some stereotype. None of this stuff has anything to do with you. It's a messed-up system, and it's not your fault that the system is messed up. Right. So, I think it's really important not to get involved in internalizing, because when you start internalizing this, it's a downward spiral, and it can cause you to get into a depression. Yeah, important to keep from doing that.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. And you know, you know. And here's another thing that I've learned from a lot of my advocacy too, for LGBT people and Autistic people, when there are campaigns and environments that are really working to the point where we're really having to fight and argue just to exist. Internalizing those messages is really an unavoidable consequence. So, if you're feeling guilty because you're internalized, don't, don't, don't go there, but at the same time you do. You have an obligation to yourself to constantly purge that from yourself and to continually you know, discover your strengths and celebrate your strengths, your successes, the things you are able to do, and it’s no simple task. And again, we're dealing with a culture that is upheaving A lot of the progress that's been made on so many levels. I mean, you know, it's disheartening that that's where we are, but we are here, and so part of Autistic leadership continues to be and I repeat, just telling yourself, I am not going to be used as someone's tool of repression, and the person who's not going to take the brunt of that is me, you know. And you know, it is a challenge right now, and there's a lot of things that are making us angry, that are making us sad, that are making us be defensive.

Shalese Heard 

Evil is what it is.

Philip King-Lowe

Well, Shalese, Heard I thank you so much for this time and being so candid with what you shared here. It’s important that you know, we hear these things, and one of the things I love doing about Today's Autistic Moment is providing that safe space for us to have these in-depth conversations.

Shalese Heard 

Thanks for having me here.

Philip King-Lowe 

You're welcome. You're welcome. I'm so glad you've been here.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All these events and many others with their links not mentioned here are available on

todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard.

The Adult Coffee Club is back for Autistic Adults in Minnesota.  They are held on the second Tuesday of every month (weather permitting) at Dogwood Coffee located at 2700 University Ave W. Suite 100 in St. Paul, Minnesota.  Zip Code is 55114.  The Adult Coffee Clubs will begin at 4pm to 6pm on February 11th. March 11th. April 25th. May 13th. June 10th.

Understanding Autism virtual classes are offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. The next classes will be on February 10th, 12-1pm. March 10th, 6-7pm. April 14th, 10-11am. May 12th, 12-1pm and June 9th, 6-7pm. Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

On March 7th from 9am to 11am Leah Kuypers will present the workshop What’s New with the Zones of Regulation? Updated Approaches and Curriculum.

Beginning on Saturday, March 15th and continuing March 22nd and the 29th, from 10am to 1:30pm, Jillian Nelson will present the workshop Policy Power: Advocacy for An Inclusive Future.

Register today to attend the 30th Minnesota Autism Conference, April 16th through the 18th at the Doubletree by Hilton Minneapolis Airport Hotel, on 2020 American Blvd. in East Bloomington, MN 55425. There will be keynote speakers, in person and virtual breakout sessions, social opportunities for community building, and resource tables. The hyperlink to this event is on the transcript.

Go to ausm.org to get more information about these and other social and recreational programs, educational events, counseling services and support groups at The Autism Society of Minnesota.

MNeurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing Neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections.  Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect regardless of ability or preferences. Go to their new website mneurodivergent.org for more information, become a member, volunteer and attend their events.

The Autistic Self-Advocacy Network invites Autistic college students to join them for The 2025 Virtual Autism Campus Inclusion Academy that will be held on July 14th to the 20th. Click on the ASAN Autism Campus Inclusion Academy link on todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard to get more information and apply by midnight on Sunday, March 9th.

Today’s Autistic Moment is here because of the generosity of supporters and sponsors.  Please go to todaysautisticmoment.com and select “Support Today’s Autistic Moment” to donate. 

If you have questions about Today’s Autistic Moment, please send an email to todaysautisticmoment@gmail.com.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

May you have an Autistically Amazing day.

♫ Closing Background Music with credits ♫

All of the guests meet with me on Zoom to record the interviews. The interview transcripts are provided by Otter. The podcast is prepared and edited on WavePad Masters Edition by NCH Software.  The podcast is published by Spotify for Podcasters.  The Music that you hear is licensed to Today’s Autistic Moment by premiumbeat.com.