Unmasking Your Authentic Autistic Self

Segment 1

 

Transcript

 

Unmasking Your Authentic Autistic Self

 

May 21^st, 2023

 

 

Welcome everyone to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by an Autistic Adult.  My name is Philip King-Lowe. I am the owner, producer, and host; and I am an Autistic Adult. Thank you so much for listening.

 

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Today’s Autistic Moment is a free podcast that gives Autistic Adults access to important information, helps us learn about our barriers to discover the strengths and tools we already have to use for the work of self-advocacy. 

 

This first segment of Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored by The Autism Society of Minnesota: Minnesota’s First Autism Resource.  For over 50 years The Autism Society of Minnesota has been honored to support Minnesota’s Autism Community. Visit them online at ausm.org.

 

Thank you for joining me on this episode: Unmasking Your Authentic Autistic Self.  My guest is Eric Garcia.

 

Please visit todaysautisticmoment.com where you can listen to the podcast, get transcripts, program updates, and read the guest bios pages.  Please visit the updated Future Shows Page with the titles, guests, and descriptions of all the shows coming up through October.  The transcripts are sponsored by Minnesota Independence College & Community. The transcripts can be read and followed from the website, or you can click on the link provided to be taken to a written document to print and read it there.  While visiting the website, please consider supporting the work of Today’s Autistic Moment with a financial donation or purchase an item from the Logo Shop.

 

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Please join my panelists and I on May 24^th, at 2:00pm central standard time for Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussions: How Autistics Define Success on my YouTube channel @todaysautisticmoment.  Success is defined by a culture of ableism, sexism, racism, and the neurotypical majority.  Success is measured and determined by capitalism in how much money one earns and/or by the property we own.  As Autistics, each one of us decides what success means through our Autistic identity and talents.  Join the panel on May 24^th to hear how the panelists define success as Autistic individuals.

 

In Eric Garcia’s book We’re Not Broken: Changing the Autism Conversation, chapter 6 “Ain’t Talkin’ ‘Bout Love” he wrote about his experiences and those of other Autistics regarding dating and relationships.  On page 140 Eric wrote,

 

“In short masking and blending my autism makes dating difficult.  I am used to hearing people say, “You don’t seem autistic.”  When I was younger, I took it as a compliment. After being teased and singled out for being strange, hearing I blended in was the highest form of praise because it meant I belonged. But now, I resent the description because it means that I don’t fit people’s stereotype of autism.  Trying not to “seem autistic” is a reaction to the fear of being “caught,” and that blending means you never know when to show your partner the real you.”

 

Following this first commercial break, Eric Garcia will talk about the incentives for masking and that self-acceptance is an important element to unmask.  Please stay tuned.

 

Commercial Break I

 

Segment 2

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Eric Garcia, welcome back to Today's Autistic Moment. I am always so grateful when you come on to the show. So welcome back.

 

Eric Garcia

Thanks for having me. Yeah.

 

Philip King-Lowe

Welcome. You're welcome. Well, today, I wanted to talk about a really important topic, which is Unmasking Your Authentic Autistic Self. There's a lot of conversations around about masking unmasking. And I also like to talk about being authentic as Autistic people. So yeah. Yeah, it's so important that we kind of talk about that. So. So what important information do you feel we need Autistic Adults, and our supporters need to know about when we talk about Unmasking our Authentic Autistic Selves?

 

Eric Garcia

Well, yeah, so I essentially like I think, I mean, Devon Price has written a great book about this Unmasking Autism, you should really have Devon on the show sometime. He's talked a lot about the pressures that come with being Autistic, the pressures that Autistic people face. There are so many incentives to mask. Whether it is pleasing other people. Whether it's being whether it's avoiding punishment. Whether it is gaining approval from our peers. Whether it is seeking, you know, having economic security. Like I think it's really important to recognize a lot of people. You know, one thing people a lot of people ask me about is like, probably the most common question I get when I when I talk about this stuff. On the road, people ask me, like, should I how do I disclose that I'm Autistic? You know, and I think that, like I said, Well, it's really, really depends like, Should you disclose or whether you want to disclose or not? But I think that there are so like, for so many people, masking is really the only way you could make money. And we know how underemployed our community is. Or, you know, we know how we know how much unemployment affects the community. We know how much poverty affects the community. So there, there are so many factors that push us to mask. Whether it's our family relationships, interpersonal relationships, our relationship work, our friendships, our romantic relationships. So unlearning masking is, I think, a constant exercise. It is a constant practice. Because what you're essentially doing is you're trying to get at the center of what of who you are. When you take away everything else. All of those pressures, and it's really difficult. And it's scary, because, you know, I'll say this and I'm talking too long, so forgive me, but I've talked a lot about the fact that I quit drinking four years ago, and I think it's over. The funny thing that I thought about a lot when I when I quit all that stuff was Oh, am I going to be the same person that I was when I was doing all that stuff? You know, am I going to be, are people get to like me? Because all those things were things that I did to lower my inhibitions. And I was like, Oh, are people still gonna want to be around me? And in the same way, it is terrifying to wonder Oh, like, what most people don't like the real me?

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Well, first of all, Dr. Devin Price is actually going to follow you because he's going to be on my very next show about What Successfully Autistic & Queer Really Means.

 

Eric Garcia 

Yes. Oh, I'm so happy. Yes.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. And then the other part is that a year, a year ago, I had Lyric Holmans the Neurodivergent Rebel. And part of the masking and unmasking piece is that we live in a world that's just not made for Autistics. And so, we tend to mask because we want to because we're trying to fit into that world.

 

Eric Garcia

Yes, yes.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

And part of the part of the thing is, is that unmasking, there's that risk.

 

Eric Garcia 

There's a lot of risks. Yeah, you know, and it's interesting, I think that really the middle spinner. Okay. So, like, I mean, it's interesting, right? Because like, it's almost like, so like Lyric, from what I understand. And Devin, I think they were both diagnosed later in life, or at least in adulthood. Yeah. And I know both of them. I'm gonna be on a panel with Devon in May at NYU. But like, it's interesting, because I think that like the late diagnosed Autistic person, masking was almost a default, you know? Because they didn't realize they were Autistic. They just kind of, like, pop it out, you know, you know, and what's wrong with you if you can't fit in? And then I feel like the early diagnose Autistics I was diagnosed when I was like, eight, or seven or eight, eight ish, eight. So, let's just settle on the eight. You know, we spend, we go through so many different I was never put the ABA, thank God. I wasn't put through ABA, but there are so like, there are so many treatments and therapies and things like that. And we're taught to like almost mask these deviant behaviors, we're taught all these different tricks or things like that, or we learned that these things that make us, you know, are things we had to suppress. So, one way or the other, whether you had to mask like from birth, or whether you had you learned how to mask their or like, you immediately, you will immediately learn from a very young age that your behavior, the way you behave is an aberration is a deviation from the norm. And what that does, is it leads you to want to shrink yourself. It leads you to want to suppress these parts of yourself. So, you unlearn a lot. So, like it's interesting, because like, I didn't think about unmasking really until I got older, you know, and I met people like Devin, and I read, and I read a lot of literature about so I'm gonna obviously knew I was on the Autism spectrum at a very young age. but like, I didn't think about it until really, I started writing about it. What was funny is I think it's like, this is this is the analogy I always use an extra, you know, you know, it's one of those things I think I should have, I should have written this in the book, but I didn't. You know, when I went to college when I went to university, I didn't know the first thing about basketball. And I'm just using this analogy, so bear with me a little bit. I didn't know the first thing about college basketball. But I knew that I went to the University of North Carolina. I knew Michael Jordan played for UNC. So, like Andrew, a lot of my friends liked UNC. So, what I did is I started watching games with my friends. You know, people, my classmates because I realized my friends liked it. And even if I didn't understand the first thing about you know, what different positions there were or like what a one seed or a 16 seed was, I could almost mimic and mask and, you know, put on this performance that I cared about it, because I knew that my friends cared about it. And it was a way to make friends. And now, I'm just thinking about this because right now we're, you know, the Final Fours this weekend, you know, I think to myself a lot, it's like, do I really like college basketball? Or did I just get so into it because my friends liked it. And at this point, I'm so deep into it, that I can't really undo it, you know, the same way like, I knew that, like, I wasn't very athletic growing up. But I wanted to bond with my dad. And so, I got into the music that my dad liked. And now it's like, uh, you know, I've been listening to music playing music, I picked up guitar largely as a way to bond with my dad. Because my dad was a drummer, that's kind of like, oh, do I really like this music? Or do I just like this music because of my dad. My dad liked it. And my stepdad liked it. So, you know, it's so unlearning becomes or unmasking becomes this really complicated thing, because then you almost kind of start to have to ask yourself, what part is me? In what part is the stuff that I performed? And at what part? Do those two things start to blend? And it's a really complicated thing. Yeah.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

But um, and so unmasking. Let's talk a little bit more about the unmasking parts. Because, again, my conversation with Lyric Holmans about a year ago unmasking and coming out of the closet have a lot in common. And among those is that you're setting yourself free, but you're also as part of unmasking as coming out. You're also connecting with yourself as you truly are. And a lot of that comes from comes from a learned self-acceptance. Yeah, so go ahead.

 

Eric Garcia

Yeah, it comes from the learn self-acceptance comes from like, okay, these things that I thought were bad about myself are these things that people told me all the time were, were negative, they're just me. And I think in a way, it really helps if you if you have people who can kind of lead you into that, you know? Or it can even lead you but kind of guide you through it or help you or help you through it. It's funny, you know, it's like we all kind of we all have different people who have helped us learn that these things that we have, are or not, don't make us bad people, but really just kind of are we are and like, this is how you work with it. So, I really, you know, it comes down to unmasking is, it comes through community, I think in a lot of ways. Yes, yes, yes, it comes big time through community. And it comes through other people affirming that these things that we thought were bad or made us kind of where we thought we were failures as humans comes to unlearning that and realizing no, this is a very common thing. And you shouldn't be afraid to present these parts of yourself. Now, you know, the other thing of it is that unmasking is not a uniform experience within any one person because I think that there are people look neurotypical because like, as I say, like neurotypicals mask to, you know? You mask when you are talking with your boss. You mask when you are on a date. You mask when you are going to a restaurant, and you know what we’re, so I think that the unmasking has different gradations. You know, the perfect example that I use all the time is that when I when I'm back in California, and when I'm talking to my family, I talk about I talk in a way that is very different from the way I talk in Washington, where I live Washington DC. And I think that is very similar. Like I think when I'm around other Autistic people, or when I'm texting other Autistic people or when I'm on a show like this, I talk in a very different way. And I behave in a very, I guess I would say a less guarded way than I would if I were among mixed company, or almost an exclusively neurotypical crowd. And so, I think that I think there is something to be said about, you know, the point of self-acceptance, but also like, we come to accept ourselves through finding other Autistic people like ourselves and have those moments.

 

 

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah.

 

After this next commercial break, Eric will talk about the many individuals who have helped him unmask over the years and his process of unmasking throughout his career. 

 

Commercial Break II

 

 

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Segment 3

 

Philip King-Lowe 

As you work into what are the barriers for Autistic Adults to Unmasking our Authentic Autistic Self? To continue what we're what we’ve already been talking about, one of those barriers happens to be the nonsense that's called Theory of Mind deficit. Because what you were just taught, what you were just talking about a little while ago, is, is something that's been said, as we've been talking about unraveling that whole thing. When we are in the presence of other Autistics, we can be ourselves because we understand, you know, we understand each other, you know, and I've been talking with, with a lot of my guests and a lot of people that I do believe that there is an Autistic culture and a language that is just unique to us. Oh, yeah. So, let's, let's talk about things like that.

 

Eric Garcia 

Yeah, um, there very much is an Autistic culture. And you know, John Marble, who I adore, is Autistic, and he's later diagnosed Autistic. He likes to say that being Autistic is a lot like being French. Which is to say that a designer in Paris, is going to be very different from a nun in Bordeaux, but also very different from a farmer in the Champagne region. But if they were all to sit down at a Café in The Champs Elysees, and the shops really say, they would have a shared understanding of what it means to be French. In the same way, I think that it's funny because it's like, and I've talked about this with a few other Autistic people, Haley Moss is really the person who hit me up with this, is that when we're moving through the world, with neurotypical people, no matter how much we mask, no matter how much we are, suppressing ourselves, we still speak neurotypical with an Autistic accent, so to speak. You know, and I think that when we unmask because I think a lot of times, I think I think back to a lot of the other part about unmasking is unraveling previous experiences, or past experiences that we thought about, or misconnections, or times when we messed up, or supposedly messed up, or we thought that we were abnormal, or we embarrass ourselves, or we embarrassed others or others said that we embarrassed them. That's also part of unmasking. And we feel very embarrassed that our Autism breakdown almost. And I think that when you get to the unmasking phase, you almost become less inhibited. It was funny because like I was one of my really good friends is Brandy Schillaci. And she's Autistic, and she's come to recognize it. And she said to me, she was texting me a while back and she said, have you found that after you realize you're Autistic? It's harder to mask and I was like, yeah, yeah, it's a lot harder to mask. Like, once you start, like you, once you connect from that you can't go it's almost impossible to go back to the mask and you’re with the way you did in the past. Because then you no longer remember how you realize how much weight you are carrying around with you on a daily, weekly, hourly, minute by minute basis. And you're just like, I can't do this anymore.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Yeah. Because when we mask, of course, this is why I'm talking about the authentic ness. I mean, there is an authentic being Autistic, there is it is being authentic, it is really being ourselves. And then the masking, you know, it's almost like we try to hide, but the fact is, there's still something that people sense. You know, I've been saying for a long time now. You that one of the differences about Autism itself is that, you know, speaking solely from the point of a disability, when people see that someone will see when someone sees somebody in a wheelchair or are using a cane, they know that somebody's having some difficulty walking or moving. Yeah, with Autism, it's one of those things where people sense there's something different. But they can't quite put their finger on it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so, and,

 

Eric Garcia 

Yeah, it's funny because it's like, I remember one time, Charlie Garcia Spiegel, who's Autistic. He and I were talking about this, you know, the whole concept of "invisible disabilities" it's funny because it's like, invisible to who? You know, because like, we do have, you know, there are some people who can spot like, because even if people don't know, the first thing about Autism, they can sometimes see if you're spitting out, or you're if you're struggling, or if you're trying to do you know, they may not know exactly what it is, or they may think it's a deviant behavior, or they may think it's a bad thing, but they do know that it's it is visible to people, as much as we don't like what? And so then conversely, I think when Autistic people or otherwise neurodivergent people notice it and other Autistic people, there's almost kind of this like, Oh, hey, this thing you're doing like, that you're really struggling with don't work like it's a normal thing. So, like when it becomes visible to other people, you know, then it becomes very evident. Like, I'll give you the perfect example. This is what I write about in my book. When I was a senior in college, I was taking this class was by this guy by the name of Farrell Guillory who was an amazing professor. He just recently retired. And you had to write a column every week, for his class isn't my most I studied journalism. And like, I remember my first assignment. I really struggled with it. And then afterward, like a week later, he called me he was like, I was waiting to go, I was waiting for class to start. And he called me into his office, and I thought, my troubles, you know, like, but then what? What he said was, what we did, he closed the door. It says, I just got to ask him, do you have Asperger's? Now, I should say, professors do not do this. I think that's against the law. But I think there's a violation of FERPA or HIPAA, or whatever, but, but like, in the moment, and I immediately felt like, Adam in the garden, you know, like, felt very naked. But on the other, he was like, I have a grandson who is on the Spectrum, I want to help you be able to, like distill your thoughts. And like, that was in so many ways, so helpful, because as much as I do, because I was hiding something. And I was, I thought I was moving covertly, you know? And it turns out, I wasn't, you know, and somebody saw you. And it's like, instead of passing judgment, you saw the skill and the potential and want to help harness it. And I go back to that moment, a lot, even the dead I think about that moment, a lot. And I think on one hand, it was so terrifying. On one hand, it was very inappropriate. But on the other that was such a liberating moment. And it was so crucial to my not just to my success as a student, but to my trajectory as a human being. And I think about that moment, constantly. So, when we talk about invisible disabilities, the question is like well invisible to who do you know?

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I want to move into my third question, which is what steps should Autistic Adults in our supporters take to advocate for our needs? Now during this year 2023 Today's Autistic Moment is focusing on the strengths and achievements of Autistic Adults because it has been my feeling that we focus so much. There's so much focus on our deficits and, and stuff that we need to talk about our great tenacity. Yeah, let's talk about Let's talk about you know, the strengths and the strengths that Autistics do have, that we can use we can use to unmask. Can you talk a little bit about that, please?

 

Eric Garcia

I mean, I think it's really funny, you know, because I think they're like, when we talk about disclosing that we're Autistic. We talk about, I think that a lot of people are when we talk about unmasking, we often think that like, okay, that means that we need more accommodations, so that we're going to be too difficult to handle or more to handle or things like that. But like, I've often kind of given the opposite argument, which is like, it was funny, I there was a headline I was reading right before a lot, just today, I barely skimmed it, like, I didn't even read the article. But it was interesting, there was this one headline of a doctor who said that, like, they're discovering they were Autistic, help them find the right field in them in the medical profession, you know, and help them find their niche. And I think about that. And I think about how we often associate like coming in as autistic asking for accommodations asked for special needs is like, asking for a lot. But like, the flipside is, if you are not giving accommodations to, to Autistic people, you're really not giving, you're really only getting if you're an employer, you're really only getting like half or even 75% of that person, if you're lucky, you know. You're not getting that person's whole potential. And I think we need to reframe how we, when we think how we think of accommodations.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Right. Yeah.

 

Eric Garcia 

You need to think of it as a way to help Autistic people and any person with a disability really, to maximize their potential, to allow them to thrive.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, two years ago, I had Samuel J. Levine. He is a professor of law and a tremendous advocate for Autistic people, especially employment in the workplace. And one of the things he said, on that show, then was that, you know, that that among the things we need to do is we need to change the mindset. So, employers, employers learn to look for those the skills and talents we bring to a workplace rather than look so much at our “deficits." So, we're to what we're set what I, what I feel, like we're saying here is that unmasking our authentic Autistic selves is a way of releasing, or bringing forth those skills and gifts that we have that we can give to ourselves in the world. Yeah, I think, go ahead.

 

Eric Garcia

It's unlocking a lot of things. You know, so like, I can think about in my own career as a journalist, I think that even if somebody's not Autistic, or if somebody's not, as we're not otherwise disabled, I think it allows me to think you know, because the big thing about Autistic people is communication, whether we're speaking or non-speaking. And I think what it's given me is, it's given me this ability to, to realize when I'm interviewing people, oh, they're communicating in a different way. If they don't communicate in the way, like if they're not giving me the immediate soundbite. I think that initially, especially when I was masking early in my career, I would get impatient because it's like, come on, I need you. But now I'm realizing more and more is like, oh, this person is formulating this person is communicating in a way that I may not understand. But their communication is valid, or they're giving me the answer in the best way possible. And I think that allows me to by me unmasking. I'm able to recognize different forms of communication as legitimate and not deviant. And I keep going back to that word deviate, because I think that for the longest time, you know, we think of deviant as outrageous things that would that just out of the norm, and in the same way I think then will we do with it's funny. There's a point I wanted to make earlier but I just It slipped me is It's funny how we talk about how much we talk about accommodations; we say how you have to do so much to accommodate these Autistic people or these disabled people. Well, it's like you think about it is just like, how much masking is us accommodating neurotypical people. That's what it is. At its core. It is covering a behavior that makes you feel uncomfortable. At our expense. And it is expensive.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. And I also think that part of that is, is not just because of what they're not on accommodating, but it's also it's also a way of us not accommodating ourselves, or ourselves.

 

Eric Garcia

Absolutely, yeah. It can't like we like what do you think, you know, it's like you one of the things that I say, it's like, well, what will I'm afraid of, like, if I unmask, then like, you know, and I think about this a lot is like, if I unmask, it's like, what do I lose? And then the other thing that I think I thought of is like, I think about when I was early in my career, and I masked a lot. I think about how hard it was to work, I think about how hard it was to fulfill my commitments to my friends, or how hard it was to fulfill my commitments in dating or fulfilling my commitments in, in my interpersonal relationships or with my family. I think about all those things that I think about how, as I've worked on unmasking, yeah, it's led to some things, you know, some things have fallen to the wayside. Absolutely. I'm not saying that it's a perfect experience. It comes at a cost. Cost, but the benefits outweigh the costs every day of the week.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, what are some ways that you have been unmasking?

 

Eric Garcia

Yeah, I think I mostly unmasked Well, through social media. I think finding community finding community with other Autistic people, that's when asked, and like, Oh, you do this, I do this, let's do this together, you know, I think, fine. You know, I'm fortunate that I live in a city with a lot of other Autistic people that I could kind of hang out with. I think that's really important. I think that I, I understand, I understand when I need to be, I need to give a break to myself. I understand when I need to, obviously, like if I offend somebody with a statement or something like that, that like, obviously apologize. But like, I give myself the permission to stim in public, because like, what are the things that again, to the point about accommodating, it's like, we often think about, like, oh, well, somebody is stimming, and that's kind of embarrassing. And this is, you know, it's in a public setting. And I'm just thinking to myself, well, if they didn't, my counter argument to a lot of people is like, well, if a kid doesn't stim, then they're not going to be able to make it to go to that function, you know, you because it's just gonna be too much. So, I think allowing myself to stim is really important. Allowing myself to not be conscientious of the way I talk, or the way I present myself is really, is really important. And I think it's also just it goes back to what Devin writes about in his book, it's like thinking about those times where I felt completely relaxed, and what it took for me to get there. And I think about how to make those a concert experience. So those are, those are all related. And I should say, you know, it's funny, because it's like, somebody asked me early on during the book promo like, oh, like, when did you kind of overcome your internalized ableism? And get to pull your word out? And like, I'll let you know when I finally do you know. So, it is a constant continuous experience. That's the other part of it is I don't is I try not to be too hard on myself. And I recognize, again, all of the ways the world pressures us to mask and I think about the times, and I think about that and then I think about okay, this this is how these things come about. But now I'm more conscious of it. That allows me to give myself a break.

 

After this final commercial break, Eric and I will talk about how the wave of bills that prohibit gender affirming care all over the country are making it difficult for Autistics everywhere to unmask.  Right after that, Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board. 

 

Commercial Break III

 

 

Future Shows

 

Dr. Devon Price will join me for our Pride Month special episode on June 4^th: What Successfully Autistic & Queer Really Means.  When most people hear the words successfully Autistic & Queer, they digress to what those words mean from a neurotypical, ableist and straight point of view of what success is.  Dr. Devon Price who is the author of the books Unmasking Autism: Discovering the New Faces of Neurodiversity and Laziness Does Not Exist will talk about what being successful as Autistics and Queer really means. 

 

On June 18^th, I will be joined by Daren Howard who is the Deputy Director at The Autism Society of Minnesota for the episode Autistic Fathers Celebrate Father’s Day Too.  In a society where neurotypicals are “normal” and ableism is accepted on a conscious and sub-conscious level, a father is the masculine bread winner in the family who is a model of self-discipline and ingenuity.  Daren will talk about what being an Autistic father means for him.

 

July will be the start of the second annual Summer of Self-Care Series.

 

On July 2^nd, I will be joined by Matthew Lawrence The #ActuallyAutisticCoach for Self-Care Through Creating Good Boundaries.  Autistics have the right to have boundaries that keep us safe from abuse.  Autistics are often told that we do not keep the boundaries of others, but we have neurotypicals violating our boundaries all the time.  Matthew Lawrence is a life coach who works with Autistics to develop good boundaries.  Join Matthew and I as we talk about the boundaries that Autistics need for our personal health.

 

Check out the Future Shows page on todaysautisticmoment.com for all upcoming shows.

 

Do you have any topic ideas for future episodes of Today’s Autistic Moment?  Go to the Contact Us page on todaysautisticmoment.com and submit your topic suggestions.  Go to the page for Be My Guest to submit a Guest Intake Form if you would like to be a guest.

 

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

 

 

Segment 4

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. As we prepare to wrap this up, I want to talk with you about some articles that you've recently written in I wrote a blog recently about this matter.

 

Eric Garcia 

Yeah.

 

 

Philip King-Lowe 

In the most recent weeks and months of this year, we have seen a lot of anti-trans bills being pushed through about Yeah. But about capping or prohibiting gender affirming care. And in fact, I saw the one article that you wrote for MSNBC about what's happened in Georgia. And as I say, I wrote my own blog about, you know, how anti trans bills are harming Autistics. Yeah, especially as, as we're walking into pride month following this show. We need to emphasize that when one part of our Autistic community is affected, it really does affect all of us. And what's happening with the transcript. What's, what's happening with the trans community affects so many of us because of how many trans people are in fact, Autistic. Let's, let's talk a little bit about that as we prepare to end this.

 

Eric Garcia 

Yeah. So, let's talk about and let's, let's tie it into masking, right?

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes, absolutely.

 

Eric Garcia

Because like, I mean, I think because, like, So, hold on, let me pull up. If you'll excuse me, I'm gonna pull up the exact text of that Georgia bill, just to be just so I can, I can specifically reference it. So okay, so I haven't right in front of me. So what's interesting is in this for those who don't know, there was a recent, I guess, in late March, because we're just talking about when we're when this this thing airs, there was a plot, Georgia's Republican legislature signed, passed legislation that the governor signed that said, and it was interesting is that there was the law included a clause that said, "Gender dysphoria is often comorbid with other mental health and developmental conditions, including Autism Spectrum Disorder." That was somebody DM'ed me that as it was getting passed. And it fascinated me because I mean, a lot raised the alarm bells, because what it did it, he's kind of a blinking alarm bells, because think about it this way. If you are Autistic, and trans, and I say this, like I'm a cisgender, heterosexual guy, I don't know what it's like to be trans. But like I thought about it, I thought about it in my head thought, Oh, well, what this means is that if trans people, if an Autistic trans person wants to transition, that means they're going to have to mask their Autistic parts of themselves, in order to be taken seriously. Because then immediately, the moment that they present themselves as Autistic, or even if they have a diagnosis, that's going to be used against them in arguing against them receiving gender affirming care. Conversely, if trans people recognize they are Autistic, immediately, what that's going to do is that's going to prevent them from wanting to present that part of themselves. Or understand it, that's going to be a roadblock to them unmasking.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes, yes, absolutely.

 

Eric Garcia 

So, on either side of that fence of that trajectory. They're going to be forced to mask and what they're going to be forced to do is choose which part of themselves they can't reveal to the world. And that is scary.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

It is frightening. Yes. You know.

 

Eric Garcia

So, I think that's, I think those are, those are the stakes. And I think the other thing, and this is the other part of it, is that this using the Autism diagnosis as what it is, and I think I want to be if I can be as blunt as possible, what it is it's also delegitimizing Autistic people articulating their needs. Because then it's like, well, they're Autistic. So, they don't understand what they don't understand what they want for themselves. It's a really, it's a scary thing. It's a dangerous thing. For a lot of Autistic people. Yeah, well overlap. Yeah.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I have I have been saying for quite a while now that there is a tremendous amount of LGBT people who are also Autistic and I have often been suspicious that I would be, so I said, I remember I wrote this as a comment to one of your posts on Twitter. But I would be I would not be surprised if some have already started to make the insidious suggestion that, that Autistic and diverse sexual orientations and gender identities, of course, they're going to happen because they're quote both disorders because we know that in 1973, actually, that's when it was when, when homosexuality was removed from removed as a disorder. Yeah, and so because we now have that we have this atmosphere that continues to be hostile to LGBT people and Autistic people. You know, and this, the, the point is, is that we are still having some people making decisions of law also decisions of personal nature, because based on this, the, as we call the pathological approach. And another person that is that is going to be on in the Fall is going to be Nick Walker, the author of Neuroqueer Heresies. Well, this is why it's so important to separate the neurodiversity paradigm from the pathological paradigm.

 

Eric Garcia 

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, I'm glad that that's happening. I'm glad that you're gonna have Nick on. I, you know, I think that that's one of the things that I've thought about a lot lately. And it was like, it was one of the things and it's funny because like I was at, I first noticed it when I was finishing my book, and I noticed JK Rowling mentioned it in her anti queer trans manifesto, whatever thing when I was at CPAC, served a Political Action Conference for my day job earlier this month in this early March for people who are listening. Whenever this airs, I heard Marjorie Taylor Greene say the same thing. And it was like my ears perked up, I was like, Oh, it made itself stateside made its way stateside. And it is a very concerning thing, because as you say, it's like it. The only way that this can exist is if Autism exists in this pathological paradigm. And I think that's where they need to be separate, like, you know, to your point is like a point that my friend Michael Hobbs makes is that, like, it's funny that we live in a time that there was a time that Autism was in the DSM as a separate from schizophrenia, and homosexuality was in the DSM. That says a lot about our changing understanding, but the data is very concerning. It is very concerning.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah. And among the reasons we need to be unmasking ourselves is because we need to bring forth that social connection, that being unique, unique is not bad. It's just different. And that difference is not that it's just again, unique. And part of what's happening within our political structures around these things is that, you know, once again, we're stressing being unique. There's something you know, as David Gray-Hammond so rightly says, the word disorder is a social construct, and therefore, also being unique is also a social construct. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Eric Garcia, I thank you so much for being here today. And wow, this has been a great conversation about unmasking. And let’s you know, I want to end this by saying that I, we know, it can be really difficult to unmask. But I also want to say I don't want to say the more of us that do unmask, it's a little like, back in the days when we started coming out as gay and lesbian and that sort of thing, that the more people know that we're there, the more people will come to know what it is. All the Gifts that there is in Autistic people as well as people of diverse sexual orientations and gender identities and ethnic, ethnic group, ethnic groups.

 

Eric Garcia

Yeah, it's very hard to say this stuff about a group of people when they're when they're in front of you when they're among you, you know, right. And I hope that that changes, that's all I can say is that you can no longer one thing. The good thing about I mean the thing in Georgia was scary, but like one of the good things that I recognized that I am, I recognize I am so fortunate is that I have a platform where I can tweet this out where I can write about it for a major publication. That is an immense privilege. And that is an immense responsibility. And I take that responsibility very seriously. But I also recognize that as a big change from even 10 years ago.

 

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, Eric, thank you for being on today.

 

Eric Garcia

Thank you for having me. All right. You're welcome.

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

 

All of these events with their links can be found at todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard

 

Join The Autism Society of Minnesota for their Adult Coffee Club.  The next Coffee Clubs will be on Tuesday nights from 5pm to 7pm at Dogwood Coffee in St. Paul on June 6^th, June 20^th, July 11^th, July 25^th, August 8^th, and August 22^nd.  Please RSVP at ausm.org.

 

The Autism Society of Minnesota is now accepting applications to be a presenter at The Autistic Community Summit in October 2023.  Go to the weblink on todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard/ to read the information and apply before June 30^th. 

 

For more information including the summer recreation catalog with all of the sensory friendly activities at the Autism Society of Minnesota go to ausm.org

 

Matthew the #ActuallyAutistic Coach has room in his Finding Your Autistic Self Group Coaching Groups. In the groups, participants learn about unmasking strategies, coping tools, burnout & post-burnout support and much more. Go to autisticcoach.com and click on Autism Groups for more information.

 

Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored in part by Looking Forward Life Coaching.  Looking Forward turns stumbling blocks into stepping stones towards success.  Go to lookingforwardlc.org for more information.

 

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Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

 

May you have an Autistically Amazing day.