Autistics Thriving at Work

Transcript

Autistics Thriving at Work

October 20th, 2024

Episode Preview

Dr. Ludmila Praslova is an organizational psychologist who wrote the book: The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work. Dr. Praslova’s book was written for employers, organizations and Neurodivergent individuals to utilize strengths by careful job crafting that are accommodating.  Dr. Praslova is here to talk about job matching, preventing burnout and navigating decisions to disclose or not to disclose in the workplace.  Join us for a unique perspective and approach to employment opportunities for Autistic Adults and our intersectional communities.

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Welcome everyone to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by an Autistic Adult. My name is Philip King-Lowe. I am the owner, producer, and host; and I am an Autistic Adult. Thank you so very much for listening.

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After this first commercial break Dr. Praslova and I will talk about Autistics Thriving at Work.

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Segment 2

Philip King-Lowe 

Dr Praslova, welcome to Today's Autistic Moment. It is my pleasure to have you on. I have watched your work on LinkedIn, and so I'm interested in The Canary Code and all those things, so welcome aboard.

Ludmila Praslova 

I am thrilled to be here and look forward to our conversation.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, very much so. All right, Autistics Thriving at Work. Wow! What a set of words. Because repeatedly, we know that Autistics are both unemployed or underemployed, and we also know that keeping a job and thriving in a job place can be very challenging, and so I'm pleased to add your remarks to those of others who have come before you. Including Samuel J. Levine, who was my guest back in 2021 where we talked about Justice in Employment. And I had Daren Howard, who was on my first show this season to talk about Details & Practices for Autistic Adults to be Employed. And so now we're adding this one about how to actually thrive in the workplace. And I think this is going to be a great conversation, and I'm glad we can give it to our intersectional Autistic Adult communities. So let us begin. Where can we begin to explore the topic of Autistics Thriving at Work?

Ludmila Praslova 

Well, there is some writing on it. Some of my articles deal with Autistics thriving, but obviously, there's only so much individuals can do, and there's so much we can put on the individuals. So, the reason I wrote The Canary Code is to create more awareness for employers what they can do to create organizations that are more welcoming of Autistic talent and that provide opportunities for Autistic talent to thrive. But I also did write several articles from Neuroclastic to HBR to Specialist, or that are more focused on how individuals can support themselves and navigate workplaces. So, there is something that we can do for ourselves. As an organizational psychologist, I like to focus on informing organizations on how they can remove barriers, because right now, we are dealing with very significant barriers, both to being employed, or I would call it, access to work, and success in work or in staying employed, because the way most jobs are organized is really quite exclusionary for Neurodivergent minds, and especially for Autistic mind. If you look at the unemployment rates of Autistic people with college degrees, but some people have tried to solve it by becoming entrepreneurs. You don't necessarily have to do that. Another way to do it is job crafting in your existing positions. So many of us who are employed in organizations, rather than self-employed, rely on job crafting and trying to carve something within organizations that both serves organizational interests, but also uses our talents in the best way possible and our unique strength in the best way possible. So really, the first thing we can do is job matching. Start by thinking, okay, so where do we fit? And ideally, it's helpful to have a little bit of internship or observation or something to actually know what goes into particular jobs, because people very often have very idealistic understanding of what goes into specific jobs. So, oh, yeah, teachers, they don't do very much, and they take summers off. That is not what a teaching job is. It's a brutal, highly taxing occupation and those summers are spent prepping. Or I had someone who thought that it's going to be really nice to be a firefighter, but they really didn't have a very good idea of what firefighters do. So, I think the first thing we can do is to really understand what goes into specific jobs and our strengths and then try to work ourselves into at least a matching occupation before we can get ourselves into a specific job. And that doesn't mean going into stereotypical occupations, because another thing that I've seen, oh my gosh. So now I now that I know that I'm Autistic, I'm going to have to change to tech. Do you like tech? No, I hate tech. So, society has been brainwashing people that Autistic people need to be in tech. And obviously there is significant tech talent, but there is a full range of talents, abilities, interests within Autistic people. So, we need to figure out what it is that we are good at, that we are interested in, and then try to match ourselves to occupations based on our actual strengths and not stereotypes and not something that we just read somewhere, and it sounded good, but it's really not very representative. So, it's complicated, but it's not. It's more complicated because Autistic people have more barriers, but the general idea of knowing ourselves and pursuing things that truly align with who we are and not with what society tells us we need to do, or there are jobs like everyone was telling people to go to stem five years ago. Well, those jobs have now dried up, so don't just run after things that everyone is telling you what to do. Do things that you are most likely to succeeded, which is something that you're good at, and then you have sustained motivation to be doing, that's a very big picture, obviously.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, and I'd like to point out that something I've mentioned, and I'd love for you to comment more on. Lots of times, the thing that could be a great source of employment is whatever your special interest is. You know, that's a good place to begin. Go ahead and comment on that.

Ludmila Praslova 

I've always been telling people that it's best to align yourself with your passion. There is some interesting literature on the topic that people who have studied this particular area have warned people not to put too much on themselves, because people say, Well, if something aligns with your special interest, you should be the best in the world. And when that doesn't happen. People can become pretty disappointed in themselves. So, generally, with a caution and a caveat that you still need to be a careful and realistic obviously, if you have sustained interest in something, be it, you know, animals or history, you're much more likely to enjoy jobs that has something to do with it.

Philip King-Lowe 

And the issue is not only something that you're very interested in, but how you're going to use it to do, what you're going to use it to do and how you're going to use it to do it. And so like, for example, I'm just using myself as an example. My interest is Autistic Adults. Four years ago, I sat with a voc. rehab counselor, and we said, “Okay, now, how can we take your interest in Autistic Adults and turn it into something that can earn you a little money and also make an impact?” And that's when they said, you know, you could, you know, give talks. You could podcast. And then that's how Today's Autistic Moment came about, because somebody said the word podcast. And so sometimes it's just a matter of what words align with how you can best pursue a career in that special interest. So go ahead and comment on that.

Ludmila Praslova 

Well, you need to look at a variety of things. Sometimes we can be really interested in something but not actually good at it. There are sometimes our passions, and our abilities do not align. So, we need to look at both things. So, for example, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a spy. I would probably die in the first 30 minutes, because I don't know how to lie, so I would make a terrible spy. So that was, that was just a bad idea. Well, then I wanted to, I love history, but I figured, do I want to be a history teacher? I did not really want to be a history teacher, and there's only so many things you can do with history, so I still love history, but I totally do it on the side, and I do it for fun, but I love psychology, and I also love organizations. So Organizational Psychology made a lot more sense because it's also practical. Something like HR, for example, is highly practical. I have enough interest in people in psychology to sustain it, and it also aligns with things that I'm actually good at doing. So, I can teach, I can do kind of like organizational planning. But then, of course, I ended up falling into DEI work, and that, that was the that was basically, I've been doing some kind of DEI from organizational psychology perspective my entire life. But we sometimes have multiple interests and many skills, so we need to find a combination of something that is interesting to us, something we're actually good at, and something that could be a paid career, because unfortunately, some of us would like things that might be really hard to get paid for, or we like them, but we're not good enough to compete with a bunch of other people who like doing the same thing. But there is always something. We can't sometimes people just get if I feel at this one thing I failed, and that's one thing, I think that's also really important, especially for Autistic people, because sometimes we can say, if I can't get a job in my special interest, like my life is over. Usually even Autistic people have more than one thing we're interested in and a few things that we're good at. So just a little bit of perspective that okay, so I like history, but also like psychology, and I also, you know, like languages and writing. How can we put all of those things together and find something that people are also going to pay us for? So, it's a little bit of trial and error sometimes.

Philip King-Lowe 

And this is how you encourage people to do job crafting. I take it.

Ludmila Praslova 

That's job matching. So, the first step is, or occupational matching. So occupational matching is in general, as are you going to be in mechanic, like a mechanic? Or historian. Or HR person. Within that we can then go under after specific jobs or specific positions, and then we can craft within those jobs specific ways to thrive. So, job occupational matching, the job matching let's say I like history, but it's I only like working in museums. I probably am not going to work in at schools because I don't like teaching. So, then we look for museums, and let's say there's a particular museum that doesn't align with my values, and it just sounds like that, I personally find that horrendous and morally reprehensible, so I can't do that. So that would be a good occupational match, but a poor job match. Then I find the museum that I'm really interested in and let's say it's okay. I don't want to say train, because that translates like two stereotypical but let's say I love modern art, and I found this modern art museum, and I love educating people about modern art, so that's a better job match than you know, the Museum of, you know. So, and then within that, after we job match, we can further job craft and say, “You know what this is. This is really fun. But how about I will also develop a special program that will introduce modern art to Neurodivergent people?” You are doing something that might give your museum something little extra, but you're also tweaking your responsibilities, and then you're trading stuff that you don't like doing, for example, you don't really like cataloging, with someone who likes doing that, and instead, you're focusing on developing this program for Neurodivergent people who are interested in modern art. So that would be job crafting, where you are even creating something new and changing responsibilities in a way that's a little bit different than the original job description.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, and then there's the matter of you know, if you're going to be hired by someone else, then there's going to be certain requirements of you that may be very difficult for you. And then how do you recommend people work through things like that?

Ludmila Praslova 

Again, there's no single way to do it. I usually did it for job crafting, even though I might. I matched myself to jobs to the point that I just never got into jobs voluntarily that I wasn't capable of doing. I did work at a factory, but that was something that I didn't choose to do as a teenager. We just, like, were required to do it as a part of schooling. So that was horrible, because I was like miserable, but that also taught me to not get myself into jobs I literally cannot do. So, all the other jobs that I had since then, I was very deliberate about getting myself into jobs that I can do occasionally, sometimes people change rules on you. So, you end up in a situation where you got a job and then they moved you into the open office, and now you can't do your job. Or when you sign for something, they said, “Well, you're just going to be on the email, and then they said you're also going to be on the phone,” and you don't do phones. So, when that happens, there's two things you can do. You can do just job craft. You can say, I'm just really not good at it. Can you do something else? Can I do something else instead? And someone else? Maybe can do phone calls, if they like phones, if you can work it through that way, you don't have to bother with disclosure. You don't have to do like anything else. Now, let's say they put you into an open office, and you can't do the job, but you cannot do the job in the open office. Sometimes, again, we could say, like, it doesn't work with my brain without, like, necessarily saying I'm Autistic. Sometimes we have to disclose which is not always the safest thing to do in the workplace. So, it depends. And in general, again, don't take a job. If it's like 80% of a job you can't do. If it is something that like 10 to 20% of the job that is really difficult, then that can be dealt with by accommodation. So, let's say, I can't sell, and I can't persuade people, but only in writing. I don't do cold calls, and it's like 10% of my job, and I can persuade people or get accommodation to do my communication by email and not phone calls. But if I get a job at the call center where it's like 95% of my job is calling people and they don't do phones, that is not going to be solid with accommodations, if that makes sense.

Following the next commercial break Dr. Praslova and I will talk about how the Americans with Disabilities Act gives employers loopholes to not hire disabled people. We will also talk about burn out prevention and management and the difficult decisions when it comes to disclosure in the workplace.

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Segment 3

Philip King-Lowe 

I know that as far as the Americans with Disabilities Act is concerned, and this is just in case, some are unaware. But the thing is, is that the general rule is that if something about your disability prevents you from doing the basic requirements of the job, they can choose not to hire you. However, if you need a particular accommodation to do that particular task, then that's an accommodation. So, let's say I'm going to be, let's say I'm going to be filing folders in cabinets. Okay, I have to be able to put things into a cabinet in order to have the job. But if the if you're asking for an accommodation, such as, is there a way that I can maybe have a, maybe a, I don't know, something written that says what goes in what files, and if I need help to reach that file. How can I get help to reach that file? Maybe it's something like, I need a stepladder. Maybe it's something like, I'm, you know, I need, if I need to kneel down, and I can't kneel down, can I get someone to help me do that particular task? According to what I have been told about, the Americans with Disabilities Act, that's the sort of thing that someone may have to accommodate you on. But when it comes to the actual task of what the job needs to be done, and sadly, what a lot of employees will do also is because good communication is a requirement of the job, and the fact that a lot of Autistics communicate differently, I don't like to say they can't communicate or have challenge. They communicate. We communicate differently. Sometimes that's part of the job, and it gets difficult. So sometimes, you know, the challenges of the workplace come down to things like this. And you know, we can talk all day about the legal aspect, but this is where it gets very difficult. And I would say if you really find it difficult to be employed at a particular task, then you might want to see if you can work with a vocational rehabilitation folks to see what kind of job can you do with that particular skill. They can actually help you discern that a little bit. But, you know, but it depends on where you are, unfortunately. So, you know, yeah. So, as we turn to my second question, which is, how can we get our Intersectional Autistic Adult communities engaged? And a reminder, when we talk about our intersectional communities, we are talking about people of color. We are speaking about LGBTQ people. We are speaking of Autistic women. There's still some issues with people not believing that there are Autistic women, and we know that's definitely not true. And then there's just a number of things that come up, languages, for example. But the thing is, now we're getting into the topic of preventing burnout, like we haven't really talked about that, and then navigating the disclosure. So, let's take what we're doing and let's talk about getting them engaged in the process of thriving in the workplace.

Ludmila Praslova 

Well again, that is a huge topic, and my entire book is not just about Neurodiversity in the workplace, it's on intersectional belonging at work, because yes, if we have a program for women, but that program for women does not include Autistic people, then Autistics people and Autistics women are still excluded. And the same thing for any other kind of inclusion. You have LGBTQ inclusion, but you are doing it in a way that precludes Autistic people to like even physically being in the room because you're blaring music or whatever you're doing. It just still not helpful. So really, all work of inclusion is intersectional. So, from my perspective, which I am, I'm proposing a very different DEI that's typically done in the workplace, because very often people think of DEI, okay, so there's a barrier for women. Let's get a special program for women. Here's a barrier for, let's say, Asian women. Now let's get a ladder for Asian women to get over that obstacle. So, we end up with a bunch of ladders or a bunch of groups to get over a bunch of organizational barriers. So, let's say we need to have a special program to develop women and leadership, so it's literally a ladder over that barrier. And then we want to have something for first generation college students over there, and that's a separate ladder, and before we know it, we end up with bunch of ladders, and then people are like, we're all tripping over those ladders, and we hate them. And then somebody wants a ramp, and why are we going to also build a ramp? And that's literally what DEI looks like in many organizations. It's a program on top on the program, and then they're like, we're doing this program. Then we can't do this anymore. If we're supporting women and we have to cut the veterans, or if we're supporting LGBTQ, we can't do disability. And that gets really stressful and a really difficult for everyone involved, and very fast. So, my approach is, why don't we take down those stupid barriers anyway? Why do we have those barriers in organizations? Why do we need ladders? We don't need ladders and ramps. We need to remove barriers. That's how we create organizations that are intersectionally inclusive. And so, let’s mention communication before. So, organizations throw good communication requirement into every job description where it needs to be there or not, and they don't communicate what good communication is, because it's yeah, whatever I feel like on a given day that I can say that you're a bad fit. We know that. So, the actual barrier is that organizations are putting relevant requirements into job descriptions. So, what we need to do is to define a is communication needed in that description? And if so, what particular type of communication? So, for example, if someone is an accountant, the type of communication usually is being able to present crucial financial information in graphs and writing, unless it's a very special position where you also need to be making presentations. But very rarely do you need to have the TEDx level communication skills for that position. Now, if you are hiring someone who is a professional speaker, someone who is expected to be knowledgeable, entertaining, and be able to be on for the entire week. That's a very different kind of communication skills, and you may not ever need written communication from that person. So, specify oral communication and ability to present to large groups. Well, that way, some people will know not to apply for that position, and other people will know to apply for that position, and you're also not putting those requirements on the person who only occasionally needs to send a note to someone. So, specify. Is it written communication? Is it oral communication? Is it visual communication? Is it one on one? Is it large groups? Because all of those are very specific skills. And for example, someone could be a wonderful counselor and mentor one on one, but they're not a public speaker. And if you just demand good communication, and you test it by public speaking, you're going to miss this wonderful person who is a wonderful one on one mentor. So, the actual barrier is that people are not writing good job descriptions that are based on the actual reality of the job. So that's what we need to get fixed. This way we're going to attract the right people to the position, hire the right people to the position, and support them in working with their talents. And that way, there are Autistic people who, let's say, supposedly, have communication problem, may not necessarily have a communication problem, if all they need to do is writing occasional memos, what's the big deal? They don't have to be public speakers. And if someone is a public speaker, then they will know what jobs to apply for. So rather than bringing a bunch of ladders and saying, Here's communication skills seminar for Autistic people or women or everyone who is a little bit shy or whatever, how about defined communication and remove unnecessary barriers?

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, and we also know that one of those barriers can be that many companies now use a human services approach. Human Resources approach to do their hiring and terminations and the like. And oftentimes, those folks are skilled at interviewing, not necessarily knowing the exact terms for the job.

Ludmila Praslova 

Well, it's even worse now they have AI doing that. Who knows even less? So, yes, it needs to be. It's a very significant responsibility, and organizations need to use proper science-based tools and methodology to organize their hiring. And it needs to be done by knowledgeable people.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. And that's where I go back to the show about Details & Practices for Autistic Adults to be Employed, where Daren Howard spoke about interviewing as an Autistic person, eye contact and all that. Some things that you will need to know, because he does a fantastic job with talking about things. He is Autistic, and he can talk about those things from a Neurodivergent point of view. You know, here's where we're going to move into, how do we empower Autistic Adults? And one of the most difficult parts is navigating the disclosure. Do I disclose? Do I not disclose? How do I disclose? Why should I disclose? Or, you know, there's always the risk, if you disclose, there's a risk, you may be rejected immediately. There's all this, you will be accepted but tested vigorously. There's always those things. So, let's talk a bit about disclosure, and remember that disclosure is a matter of what's best for each individual Autistic person, because what works for one is not going to work for another. So, let's talk about that important piece of disclosure. Go ahead.

Ludmila Praslova 

yeah, well, I wrote about 3000-word article for HBR on the topic, and it came out May 7, 2024, so this year, somebody wants to find it. It's a long version, but the short version, yes, depends on your individual circumstances, and we have to go through a variety of tests. Now if you need significant type of accommodations to even get through the hiring process, sometimes people are not going to have a choice. So, for example, if someone is nonspeaking and they need to communicate differently to even start the process, you kind of don't have a choice. Others who are more high masking are quite could be pretty torn. Do I disclose or do I mask until they know me a little bit better, and then I disclose? Or do I have to disclose period? And in some situations, if you found the job that you can do without accommodations, many people don't disclose because they're well, I don't see any good reason to disclose. I don't need any accommodations. I can do my job, and my health history is my business. Other people wants to disclose just because they want to represent and they just want to be 100% authentic, and they don't want to mask so sometimes it's that level of choice. Now, the more affluent you are, and the more power you have a society, in society, the more it's a personal choice, the more desperate you are for survival, the less that is of a personal choice, because if you are three minutes away from homelessness, you're much more likely to say, I'm just going to do whatever I have to get that job. So, there are many variables, like, do we have someone to who will pay, who will give, who will help you out with health insurance? Or are you going to be homeless and without health insurance if you don't have a job. So, there are very different pressures. And I'm never going to say that this person is bad because they didn't represent and disclose, because it was in their survival, survival interests, but for someone who is in a position to disclose, I think it's worth it, and so I disclose. Because even though I can do my job without accommodations, I prefer to be someone who is openly Autistic, because then maybe it will encourage someone else to open up and will normalize Neurodiversity in society. But even in my case, so when I just mention it early on, to some people in my mediator environment, not even to everyone in the organization, people can and will use it against you. And sometimes you will have a manager who is going to say, okay, not promotable. You can get demoted. That happens with a lot of people. In my case, someone decided, Oh, well, I'm going to use this knowledge to drive that person out. And they decided to interrupt me every 15 minutes and barging into my office every 15 minutes, knowing that Autistic people don't do well with interruptions. So, there are all kinds of things that people will do that are unethical. And if an unethical person has information that you have any kind of difference, they will use that difference against you. So, there are always risks, more or less obvious, but always being scared is also not a great way to live. And so yeah, I disclose just because, well, it's kind of too late to not disclose. I'm kind of disclosed to the world, but it's in a way, if you are at all in a position to do it, just to help normalize difference, then it's a good reason to do it. But then also, people can do the same thing for a variety of different reasons. And some people disclose because they need accommodations, and there is nothing wrong with that. And they might only want to disclose to, you know, their manager and one person in HR who is specifically handling, let's say, accessibility and accommodations. And it's a very hard personal choice, and unfortunately, in a highly economically unstable and unsafe society, there are many factors beyond individual preferences that impact decisions.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, including the fact that you may tell an employer that you are, and they don't even believe you. Yep, they might do that.

Ludmila Praslova 

Of course, people don't even know sometimes people don't even know themselves, which is why I put emphasis on making organizations inclusive, because there are people who don't know they're Neurodivergent until much later in life.

Philip King-Lowe 

And in my case, it was after like up teen jobs were lost, and then I finally had somebody say, Have you ever been examined for and I said, Well, go do it. And that's when I found out. I'm like, Oh, good grief. Now I know why that happened. And you know, you know. And let me say that as someone who's been through that scenario, there is nothing wrong with eventually coming to a place where you decide to be self-employed. Now you know you will have heard others; other guests and I will talk about that. If it winds up that you are self-employed and you're only part-time employed, there is nothing wrong with that. Now, it may be economically difficult, but there's nothing wrong with that. You know, you know, sometimes that's just the way it works.

After this final commercial break, Dr. Praslova will talk about why she entitled the first three words of her book as The Conary Code followed by Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board.

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Commercial Break III

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Future Shows

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On November 3rd, Shelese Nicole Heard, the Travel Goddess, will be my guest to talk about Autistics Traveling.  As we approach the holiday season, many families will be traveling.  Traveling brings many challenges for Autistics because of sensory needs, crowds at airports, bus and train stations, safe foods and of course major routine changes.  Shalese, the pioneer of the Autism Travel Movement, will talk about how Autistics can navigate traveling.

On November 17th, Maddie Smith will be my guest to talk about Autistics Living in Rural Areas.  A lot of rural areas are great places to live with less noise, traffic and without the crowds and rush of urban and suburban cities.  However, many Autistics live in rural areas where the resources they need for support and acceptance are outdated.  Many rural areas have residents living there that are dismissive of Autistics and make judgements about how “disabled” they are or assume that they are fleecing the system.  Maddie Smith will talk with us about what is happening with Autistics living in rural areas and why they need more support and advocacy.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

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Segment 4

Philip King-Lowe

Dr. Praslova, as we prepare to close this interview out, I would guess that a lot of this is in your book, The Canary Code: A Guide to Diversity, Dignity and Intersectional Belonging at Work. Can you talk a little bit more about your book, and you know, as much of what you've been saying covered in that book, and what other things might somebody read in there?

Ludmila Praslova 

Yes, my book is technically for managers, HR, people, DEI people, leaders in the workplace. It is a range around the employment cycle. So how do organizations fix hiring so that it's inclusive? How organizations fix training in the workplace so that it's inclusive. How they fix organizational culture so that it is not toxic. How do they fix performance management so that Autistic people don't get fired randomly just because they their manager didn't understand them. So, it's also it does have a little bit of review of Neurodiversity movement and in general, kind of a bigger picture. But it also has stories and like the actual examples with real names and real people of what happened to them in the workplace, and it has case studies of organizations they do things right, and it has quite a bit of research. So even though it's technically from managers, many Neurodivergent people of all walks of life have been using it for themselves, and many people say that those stories are really speaking to them, because they can see themselves in those situations that can arise in the workplace. And they can also apply many of the principles in the book to improving their own position in the workplace. And you can also, you know, suggest it to your HR and to your manager. It also is suggesting some ways in which non-manager employees can help create better work environment and better world. So, it also has a little bit, not a whole lot, but a little bit on individual level action and collective action to speed up the adoption of more fair and just and inclusive practices in the workplace. So, you could use it for yourself. If you're starting a company, you can read about work organization and different work styles and maybe adapt that to how you work, even before you hire someone, or even if you're never going to hire anyone, you can use it if you are employed by someone, but the key target audience is decision makers in the workplace, who can actually do something to make organizations better. And that's very broad. It could be anyone from a CEO to HR intern or individual manager has to direct supports. And again, it also has been helpful to individual people and also educators. Educators use it for designing learning programs and training programs and so forth, because there is also this aspect of learning and training. So it's in a nutshell, but it's basically how to create organizations that are not toxic.

Philip King-Lowe 

Probably the million dollar question you probably get asked many times, how did you come up with the name The Canary Code?

Ludmila Praslova 

Well, I'm if you've heard the expression canary in the coal mine, some people think it's just an expression. Some people think it's just a story. It's actually a real-life history. And when you know classic coal mines before there were carbon monoxide detectors that are electronic, let's say in the UK. In the UK, every coal mine through 1980s was required to employ two canaries, who were indeed taken down to the mine shafts because they are more sensitive to toxic gasses. And if canary was observed as not feeling great, they actually had little oxygen cylinders for them. So, they had glass cages with oxygen to revive canaries, and then miners obviously would also evacuate. So, canaries, they're not defective. That's how they are designed, because they can fly and sing and do all the bird things. There also have more intense oxygen metabolism, and they're just more sensitive to bad air that eventually harms everyone. Well, if you think about Neurodivergent people, or specifically Autistic people, Autistic people have more intense mental metabolism. We process 40% more information than the average person at the same period of time. So, we are more sensitive to psychologically toxic environment. So, if we create environments that are healthy for Neurodivergent canaries, who are more sensitive to things like bullying and other toxic behaviors in the workplace, we're going to create workplaces that are healthy and welcoming for everyone.

Philip King-Lowe 

Thank you. That's a great explanation, and it is a great way to illustrate what it is you're doing. Dr. Praslova, thank you so much for being on Today's Autistic Moment today. I think this has been a fantastic conversation and is my hope that my audience will have gotten some very helpful information in this so thank you so much for coming on today.

Ludmila Praslova 

It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Philip King-Lowe 

You're welcome.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All of these events and many others with their links can be found at todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard.

The AuSM Coffee Club is a space where Autistic and Neurodivergent Adults can connect with each other, foster friendships, and build community while enjoying a favorite beverage or snack. While it is free to participate in AuSM’s Coffee Club, we ask that participants purchase something from our venue.  AuSM Coffee Club meetings begin at 5pm to 7pm on Tuesdays, November 12th, and December 3rd at Dogwood Coffee, located at 2700 University Ave, W. St. Paul, Minnesota, Zip Code is 55114.

Understanding Autism virtual classes are offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. These classes are perfect for Autistic individuals, caregivers, those who want to understand the basics of Autism and support Autistic people. Classes will be on November 11th at 10am. December 9th at 6pm. Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

Are you a professional who works with Autistic people? Such as a therapist, psychologist, occupational therapist, psychiatrist, social worker, case manager, or health care provider?  Join the AuSM Professional Networking Group to work with The Autism Society of Minnesota’s Counseling and Consultation team that offers a resource to help you network with other professionals.  Group sessions are held monthly. See AuSM’s Event Calendar for more information.

Register today to attend the 2024 Autistic Community Summit on November 9th beginning at 10am to 4:30pm at Woodlake Lutheran Church located at 2120 W. 76th Street, Richfield, Minnesota, zip code 55423. This year’s Autistic Community Summit keynote presentation speaker will be one of Today’s Autistic Moment’s guests, AJ Locashio.  There will be in-person and hybrid breakout sessions like Ask a Neurodivergent Therapist, Autistic in the 20th Century, a Panel of 50+ Aged Adults, and a PowerPoint Party in the Hangout Room.

Go to ausm.org to get more information about these and other Social and Recreational Programs, educational events, counseling services and support groups at The Autism Society of Minnesota.

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All of the guests meet with me on Zoom to record the interviews. The interview transcripts are provided by Otter. The podcast is prepared and edited on WavePad Masters Edition by NCH Software.  The podcast is published by Spotify for Podcasters.  The Music that you hear is licensed to Today’s Autistic Moment by premiumbeat.com.