Autistic Adults and Gaslighting

Autistic Adults and Gaslighting

August 9, 2021

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Welcome everyone to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult. My name is Philip King-Lowe, the owner, producer, and host; and I am an Autistic Adult.  Thank you so very much for listening.

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It was less than one year ago, when a person that I trusted decided to tell me that our friendship did not mean to him what it meant to me.  In the course of the conversation, he tried to change my understanding of the reality of things that he said and made me the one who got things completely wrong.  I admit my social challenges as an Autistic can create some problems for me to understand what someone might be intending.  Just because I have those challenges, doesn’t mean that I never know what someone is saying or doing.  It wasn’t until many weeks later that I understood that my former friend was gaslighting me. 

Gaslighting is a form of manipulation and abuse concentrated on making someone doubt their own sense of reality.  Gaslighting happens with constant lying and coverups, with actions that contradicts words, and leaves the one experiencing the abuse feel like they have to defend their reality.  Gaslighting can really eat at someone’s self-esteem and begin thinking they have no sense of reality. 

Autistics experience gaslighting by parents, family members, friends, teachers, therapists, supervisors, strangers, spouses, and many more.  Gaslighting is often very subtle and passed off as harmless advice, when what it really is, is ableism in disguise.  Gaslighting dehumanizes the Autistic individual by promoting the horrible stigma that Autistic individuals are incompetent at interpersonal relationships, jobs and managing their own everyday lives.   

Lyric Holmans is an Autistic self-advocate from Texas and is known as the Neurodivergent Rebel.  Lyric is the owner of Neurodivergent Consulting.  Lyric works to help organizations and others understand where they fall short of being inclusive of neurodiversity.  Lyric started their blog in 2016 and is the pioneer of the hashtag asking autistics, where Lyric addresses issues of burnout, masking, and many other controversial subjects.  Lyric’s writings have been published in NeuroClastic and they have been a guest on many podcasts such as Sensory Matters and Sounds Like Autism.  Lyric identifies as queer and nonbinary.  Lyric Holmans is the perfect guest to talk about the subject of gaslighting.

After this first commercial break, Lyric Holmans and I will talk together about Autistic Adults and Gaslighting.  Stay tuned.

Commercial Break I

Philip King-Lowe  
Lyric Holmans, thank you very much for being on this episode of Today's Autistic Moment. And I'm so grateful that you are going to talk with me about gaslighting. Less than a year ago, I experienced some gaslighting from someone that I had put a great amount of trust in for a long time. And it wasn't actually until I had that experience that I started looking at what gaslighting actually is, because before that, I really didn't know what it was. And the way I think of gaslighting is that it's so micro aggressive or even passive aggressive, that it often goes right by us without realizing what it is. And so I think it's important to help Autistic Adults understand what it is. And also to understand what our barriers in it are, as well as what our self advocacy needs to be in this particular area. Because of how out of control it really is. Because of its nature. So um, so let me ask you my first question, I ask every episode, What important information do Autistic Aults and our caregivers need to know about with regards to gaslighting?

Lyric Holmans 
You know, I think it's really important to realize that, like you were saying, it's so subtle that a lot of us don't realize it's happening until the end, when it often becomes something really explosive and nasty, and the hindsight becomes 2020. Right?  And then even though some of us will go through it once, we might go through it again. Because, you know, we have to take the time to realize like there's a pattern. And a lot of times sometime, especially with gaslighting, I found the people that do this will often gain your trust first, before they try anything shady a lot of times or before they show their true intentions to you. And so I find that I'm very, very vulnerable to people that I trust. Which is scary, because, you know, I, it's because I think I'm a very caring person, and I want to be a good friend. And I assume people are going to be very straightforward with me a lot of Autistic people were very straightforward. We mean, what we say we, you know, it's what you see is what you get like to talk about internet terms, right? Because I am such a nerd. But you know, we we sometimes it doesn't occur to us that somebody you're dealing with in life might not be as straightforward or might not have good intentions. Like when I was in high school and middle school, for example. I didn't understand that. If I had someone that was you know, they told me they were my friend. I thought they really were my friend. I was like, Oh, I told them my secret. They said they would keep it they really weren't gonna keep it. It's like that's not how kids are, you know, but even then they would go tell my secret to everybody. But I didn't understand that people can tell you one thing and have a different intention. I just thought everyone was like me and was very face value, sometimes too much. So where I'm giving too much information, which is dangerous when you're dealing with someone that gaslights too because they're like looking for information on you and if you give all that information away very freely, it gives them a lot to work on to to manipulate you which is it makes a lot of neurodivergent people can be really good targets for this I think I find a lot of Autistic people I've done polls and they said that they feel like a lot of us have you will feel like they are unfortunately have been or can be targets to gaslighting. Which is scary and because I've had this happen to be in multiple different relationships and context from romantic to even professional. It's been my experience, which, you know, is unfortunately, why I know so much about this topic is through repeated painful personal experience. And hopefully I can we can share what we know from what we've experienced, and then it will. Maybe someone else won't have to go through it or they'll be able to spot some patterns and see some red flags before it's too late. Yeah. It does a number on your head. 

Philip King-Lowe  
It does. So let's begin with a bit of a definition about what gaslighting is. I'm looking at this image in my Google search page here. And I think this is a pretty accurate definition. Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation and emotional abuse. The gaslighter avoids responsibility for their toxic behavior by lying and denying and making you question facts, your memory and your feelings. Basically the gaslighter, makes you feel crazy and confused. Know this now, you're not crazy. You're not. You're no, you're you're no sorry. You're not crazy. You're being manipulated. And this toxic. This is toxic and not acceptable. I think that's a that's a pretty great explanation. 

Lyric Holmans
Yeah. That that's, that's perfect. 

Philip King-Lowe
Yeah. So and then there's a great article that I found on neuroclastic. I found this one this is actually dated in May of 2019, actually, May 24 2019. And it's an article that goes 50 Ways Society Gaslights, and Stonewalls Autistic People. And one of the things that I appreciated in there that I believe our listeners will really appreciate, is that one of the ways that we are gaslighted is specifically regarding our sensory processing needs. So let's, let's talk a little bit about that.

Lyric Holmans  
Yeah. Oh, and I've written about this too, like and I said, is it societal gaslighting is an unintentional gaslighting, is it really gaslighting if people maybe don't even realize they're doing it. Like, for example, when I was growing up as a kid in elementry school, I went to the nurse because I was having migraines in the classroom. But I was going to the nurse every day and didn't like school, maybe because it was overwhelming and gave me migraines. And so the nurse was like, you need to go back to class, you can't come here to get out of class every day, because I thought I was just trying to get a class. And the consequence of that was me continuing to have migraines and not realizing fluorescent lighting gave me migraines for the next 29 years of my life. Because I just thought everyone must be uncomfortable. And I just need to tough it up, you know, and suck it up and be tougher about it, because everyone is in the classroom, because the teachers like are the nurses, like everyone else is staying in the classroom, I need you to stay in the classroom, too. I was like, oh, everyone else can do it, why can't I do it, and the nurse probably didn't understand that I really was in pain. This was the 90s. So you know, early 90s I don't think they knew anything about sensory processing, or that fluorescent lighting could make people sick back then. So I don't think it was an intentional harm. But it was a great harm. That impacted me for the next 29 years of my life until I found out it was Autistic and learn what Sensory Processing Disorder was. And now like I almost never have migraines, because I don't expose myself to those environments. But there and there are Autistic people everywhere that have shared very similar stories or you know, people just like, Why are you so sensitive? Why? Why are you complaining about that that's not a big deal. You're making a big deal of nothing and you hear these comments over and over again. And it's not just one person. It's like the mass of society as a whole. Over and over again. So you know, one comment, but then it's reinforced over and over again, similar to like, if you're in a gaslighting relationship with an abusive partner who is repeatedly telling you their reality and dismissing your reality, and you begin to doubt your own reality, it's very similar thing where a lot of Autistic people we think horrible things about ourselves because we believe all the lies society has told us about ourselves and our experiences. 

Philip King-Lowe  
Right. An example of gaslighting in terms of our sensory processing needs is when we're told you're not really sensitive to lighting, you're not really sensitive to that that sound that sound is not too loud. Everybody else can tolerate it. Why can't you? You know, or, you know, this isn't exactly what you think it is. It's just, you know, you're like, you can eat that food. You're just being intolerant. You're not intolerant, but you're just not wanting to be, you know, trying hard enough. not trying hard enough. Yeah, that you know, and we know that there are those doing that every day to an Autistic person, child or or adult. Let's talk about why that is so abusive. Why is that gaslighting?

Lyric Holmans  
Well, I mean, when we think about, like, like I said earlier, it's like, it is it is similar, like with gaslighting, you know, you have the abuser, who is with gaslighting in a romantic relationship, or in a business relationship, like I've had a boss that was gaslighting in the past, and it's like, they, you, you, you have facts, and you have a reality and you come at them with reality. And they repeatedly over and over again, dismiss your reality, and feed you their own reality. Right. And they in that they make it so your, your reality is not valid. And you know, they'll they'll dismiss you or things like maybe they'll say you're crazy, or you're sensitive or you always overreact or, and they may even like in a workplace, they may tell other people Oh, so and so is so sensitive, they're always overreacting to things, they you know, and then that way they can recruit people into their gaslighting, which makes it even worse because it becomes a collective gaslighting. And then, you know, if you if you do believe, the lies that are being fed to you, whether it's by a partner, a boss, a co worker, or colleague, society, you now no longer believe in your own truth, or your own reality or your own version of the events that are happening in your life. And the further harm for that is you become someone who has a lot of self doubt, in general, not just in relation to the events that you were gaslit on. But also into other events, you start to struggle to make decisions, because you're like, can I even make decisions I'm this garbage person, because a lot of times they people who gaslight you, maybe not with society, but in relationships, they they put you down to elevate them. Right? In with society, often, I think more times, it's, they're trying to make themselves more comfortable, because you've said something they don't really understand. So they're trying to dismiss it to make it go away, because they don't want to deal with it. And so they're like, they're trying to ease their own discomfort. So it's like kind of they are elevating themselves over you again, but not in as overt, of a way, it's not as malicious, but it can have the same impacts of making you really doubt yourself and making you second guess and question your own actions. You know, especially when it's repeated, like, you know, it's like, oh, one person doing anything. Oh, it's not a big deal. One person told them, they were weird for complaining about that thing, or one person told them and they look silly when they stim in public. And but really, they've been told by 50 people that day that they're rocking is weird, or because they were rocking with you, okay? Or there's something wrong with you. Why are you rocking? And it's like, it's been 60 people that day, at the end of the day, it's like, there must be something wrong with me and my rocking by the end of the day, you've got home, you've heard it 60 times. Yeah, it started with just one person. Whereas like, you know, in every abusive relationship, it might be you hear it so many times a day from your partner or your boss or Yeah, it's just spread out by the masses.

Philip King-Lowe  
Yeah. Here's a few examples from that article, by actually her name. Yes, her name is Tara Vance. It's the article 50 Ways Society Gaslights and Stonewalls Autistic People. And here's a few examples. Like I say, I want to kind of give my listeners if you this is actually what it is. This is what it can sound like. But this is actually, you know, for example, "When they know you're Autistic, they invalidate you by saying that you can't understand basic things. And they recreate stories using the subtext they inferred, and twist the narratives you claim. You're purposefully upsetting, offending, inconveniencing or provoking them. But they know you're Autistic. Thus, they need to take your words literally. And you tell them to take you literally and there is no subtext. And they still insist the subtext is there."

Lyric Holmans 
Oh my God, like you said this. It's like no my exact words are this. I can go internet to, it's like, I know, it's exactly what I typed in the box, nothing more, nothing less . What you see is what you get, like we said earlier, right?

Philip King-Lowe  
Yeah, absolutely. Um, and then here, here's a really great one, I think "Being treated like an adult child after disclosing Autism, and getting the bless your heart treatment, or having people tell you, you're doing great for being able to perform basic tasks". You know, it's another way of saying, oh, but you know, you're not really that Autistic or something, because you can do you know, and this is why I especially insist on staying away from those functioning labels. I think those functioning labels are very much gaslighting. You know, in the sense that, you know, someone is high functioning, they get told, You don't look Autistic enough, you must not be that Autistic, if you like, you know, because you can have a job or you can accomplish these things. You must not be Autistic, that is a form of gaslighting, I would I would agree. Yeah.

Lyric Holmans  
Yeah, totally. Yeah. It prevents people that are able to mask or compensate or have coping strategies already in place that help them succeed in life, a lot of times, from getting the help they need or acknowledging that they wouldn't be succeeding unless they had those coping strategies, or those skills or you know, whatever supports they've acquired in life, a lot of times people who would be considered high functioning, like if you took away any of that, like, if you took away, you know, a lot of my supports, if I had to start working under fluorescent lighting, again, I would physically become sick and unable to work. And I would very quickly be unable to hold a job and support myself and do anything in life really, because I would get so sick, that I wouldn't be employable. And then I would be much lower functioning than I am right now. So functioning can really fluctuate and depend on different factors in life. And a lot of times, like if you suddenly have a new demand in life or something changes, or you lose a support or you lose a person, like all of a sudden, all of that can come tumbling down like a Jenga game the game with the blocks, you know.

Commercial Break II

Philip King-Lowe  
Let's go to my second question. What are the barriers for Autistic Adults in terms of recognizing gaslighting? I mean, it could be I think, for many of us because of our of our theory of mind. That can, you know, the theory of mind is being able to understand the perspectives and or intentions of others. That can be such an issue for many of us who are Autistic, that recognizing gaslighting recognizing it as abusive, I think a lot of I think the danger there is how how quickly it goes right by us.

Lyric Holmans  
Yeah. And just a quick note about you know, the theory of mind thing. A lot of I think, you know, think about the double empathy problem, which is Damian Milton, a lot of Autistic neurotypical people, I think, unintentionally Gaslight, us like slighted gaslighting, it comes from the fact that they can't understand our perspective. And so they just dismiss our perspectives because not only do we struggle to understand their perspectives, because they're coming from a different place. So like everyone assumes that their mind is how everyone else's mind works just naturally until you learn there are different types of minds. And then I went, oh, whoa, life changing, okay. But the neurotypical people who are often gaslighting me unintentionally about like my sensory needs and stuff. It's because they can't step into my shoes. And a lot of times, I would get manipulated and gaslit because I assumed everyone operated like me, everyone had good intentions, people were going to just be blunt and honest with me, and nobody would be having ulterior motives. And so that would leave me very vulnerable to when I didn't understand that that's not how everyone operated. Self awareness and awareness of neurodiversity and the different types of brands and how we all different think and interact with each other. And I'm really obsessed with like communication. Since learning I was Autistic because they're like, you can't communicate. I'm like, I'll show you. Yeah, it's just all of these different things come into play. So I think there's a two way street and not understanding each other. Not to put all the blame on us. 

Philip King-Lowe  
Right. Right. I think one of the core problems about gaslighting for Autistics is that we see once again that those who are not Autistic, are determining the ways in which Autistic should exist, live or be. I think gaslighting is definitely a way of nurturing ableism. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, you know, gaslighting is an excuse to deny Autistic individuals our dignity and opportunities to reach our potential as the amazing people that Autistics are. And I think, because it's so passive, and micro, I mean micro aggressive, passive aggression, you know, it's the kind of thing that we may not see it for what it is at the moment. Again, because many of us are not, may not be fully aware of what somebody might be doing, that again, that it undermines our ability, our opportunities to to better understand ourselves, to see ourselves in a positive way. And we know that, I mean, gaslighting is is a way of manipulating somebody as to how they feel about themselves.

Lyric Holmans 
Yeah, and really, I think that if you look at the experience of Autistic people being gaslit, as a minority, because the majority group doesn't understand us and minimizes and dismisses our experiences, you'll find it echoed and magnified and other minority communities as well. Like we have the LGBTQIA+ community, same with people outside of that community, dismissing their experiences and, and invalidating them, we have same issues similar with racism. So, you know, interesting about the Autistic people who are in all of those communities, how much of this those people who are multiply marginalized are potentially being gaslit. And how much of a mind grew that is like the you cannot be yourself, you cannot be authentic, everything you do and say is wrong, just over and over again in their lives. So it's like a multiplier effect, depending on you know, how much of a marginalized community are coming from and a lot of Autistic people because Autism is every race, gender, ethnicity, you know, we're everywhere. A lot of us are really struggling with this.

Philip King-Lowe  
Right, right. Yeah. And, you know, gaslighting, I think tends to affect the fact that many Autistics, myself including, we have our special interests, we have our ways of fidgeting or taking care of our sensory needs. We have our things that we do that make us feel either comfortable or soothing, or, or, or things like that. And a gas lighter is going to find a way to use those things against us, rather than help us understand how those things are so important to us. And it's okay that those things are important to us. One of those barriers of gaslighting is how much it undermines those things we need. Those things we do to better take care of ourselves. No, I think that's, I think that's No. Last last question. And this is, as I say, one of my favorite parts about about hosting Today's Autistic Moment. You know, what steps should Autistic Adults in our supporters take to advocate for our needs? And I love giving Autistic Adults the power to advocate for themselves, because I feel like one of the ways that we are heavily gaslighted, you know, is a statement made in a in a previous show where someone says that the stigma is you don't know how to do things. And so, but Autistics are actually very intelligent. We know a lot more about ourselves than we give ourselves credit for. But Autistics do know ourselves. We do know how to care for ourselves. And we need to support one another in that effort. So let's talk about some of those ways we can advocate for ourselves when it comes to gas lighting.

Lyric Holmans  
Yeah, so you know, I think it's first really important for Autistic people, a lot of us have to do some self healing. I think I wasn't able to get better at stopping people from manipulating me and pushing me around to doing things I didn't want to do or that just felt wrong to me. When I had less sense of like self and authenticity and I was less secure in myself and my identity. And I like a lot of that was learning to have boundaries. And like asking myself, am I doing this? Because I think it's what's expected of me or am I doing this because it's what I really want. Over and over again. But then, you know, after I had started to build myself up more and started to like, really, like, look at what do I really want, because I had been gaslit so much by society, my job, other people, that I just questioned everything, I didn't even know what I wanted anymore. And then, you know, I had to start back and like, look at the patterns of behavior that are involved in gaslighting, and learn to look for the red flags. And there's a lot of resources out there. And I you know, I think we've got some resources, you talked about some resources already. And we can probably share some, like red flags of gaslighting, we don't have to go through and list all of them today. But really familiarize yourself with the topic of gaslighting what it looks like, and how it's like we've become aware of how to spot it because Autistic people, a lot of us, not all but many of us are really good at patterns and picking up on patterns, we just have to know what patterns to look for. So really study those patterns and help us learn those patterns. So that we can spot them out. And if you're an ally, even if you don't understand something, when we're coming to you saying hey, this doesn't work for me, this bothers me that I struggle with this, I know I can't do this, don't put in your two cents about it. Just listen and help support us as what we're telling you we need even if you don't understand the need. We're probably coming from a place that's not not a place that you understand yet. And some Autistic people. A lot of times we we know a lot more than we can convey in words. And so we knew may not be able to verbally explain in more detail all of those information to why to get you to understand. So we just need you to listen that and trust us that we're giving you a need, we really need what we're asking you for and don't give us like the 20 questions and like try to talk us out of this thing. We said, Hey, I need this. Right. Just support us.

Philip King-Lowe  
Yeah, this is where I want to return to some points that I've made in several of my shows, that I think is very important here. This is where knowing your own brand, make and model of Autism is so extremely important. I return to something I've said and as I say, you need to be the expert about your autism, you need to be the person who knows your Autism who knows your Autistic Self, because you are the one that knows that better than anybody else. Um, and the thing is, is when you know your autism, you know your you know, you know your strengths, you know, your challenges, you know, what you and you learn about what you need to do, to advocate for yourself when you're gaslighted. And the other part that I always like to talk about is the importance of telling our stories about what being Autistic means for us. And, you know, one of those stories is how gaslighting has affected us. You've been very courageously sharing some stories about how gaslighting has affected you. And I think we do need to have more Autistics telling that story that I've been gaslighted and this is what that has done for me. And these are things that I have had to do to overcome gaslighting. The other point that I have not said on my podcast that I did say once in a presentation I gave about the importance of self care is that you are under no obligation to continue to place yourself in a relationship with a person that is abusing you. There are those of us who wants to believe that I shouldn't say want to believe, but somehow we are manipulated into believing or may have been manipulated so much. We even manipulate ourselves sometimes into thinking if we're going to be happy, we just have to put up with this particular relationship because we're not going to find any better. We don't want to be alone. We don't want to be put in these places where we're going to have to deal with sometimes the unfortunate things that happens to people that happened. They're abusive. they wind up having to go to places where they may not be as well received. And I sympathize with that. But the point is, 

Lyric Holmans
Don't you can't fix them. Don't try to fix them. 

Philip King-Lowe
You need to take care of yourself. You must take care of yourself and part of self advocacy. is looking after yourself. If you're in an abusive relationship, you do not have to remain in the relationship with that person. You do not have to worry about taking care of that person. You must take care of yourself. This is part of the self advocacy. Would you agree? 

Lyric Holmans
Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Philip King-Lowe
Because, you know, part of the gaslighting is being manipulated into "Well, you've got to take care of me, because you're the one who's not understanding reality." You know, no, we're not responsible for the abuser. The abuser is responsible for their own. And if we don't take ourselves away from that individual who has been abusing us, there's always a potential that number one, we don't realize the abuse that we're being put under, because oftentimes, we don't until we're out of that relationship. And number two, that we have to take care of recognizing the abuse we've been through, and what we can do to undo the messages that we've been told. You know, because the message of gaslighting abuse is, again, you don't know enough about yourself, to know what I know about you. When the person who's gaslighting probably doesn't even have enough respect for themselves to realize what they're doing. You know, I think we, as Autistics we need we need to recognize that we do ourselves so self respect, to know ourselves to tell our stories. And know if you're in an abusive relationship, you do not have to remain in that relationship. You can get out of it, you'll be okay to get out of it. But you do you do have a right to get out of it. 

Commercial Break III

Future Shows

Thank you to all of the regular a new listeners, sponsors, and guests who are making Today’s Autistic Moment a huge success.  My first year has been going very well.  This podcast is making an impact because of all of you.

Our Summer season will finish up with Autistic Adults and Interdependence on August 23^rd with Zephyr James.  Interdependence is best understood as relying on each other to create health relationships, family, and community building. 

The Fall shows will begin with Autistic Adults: Dating, Romantic Relationships and Sexuality on September 6^th with Leah Bauman-Smith from Mad Hatter Wellness in St. Paul, Minnesota.

On September 20^th, Leah Bauman-Smith returns to talk with me about Autistic Adults: Let’s Talk About Consent. 

Other shows in October, November and December will cover topics such as Coming Out as Autistic, Transgender and Non-Binary. Relationships with other Autistics.  Preparing for Sensory Unfriendly Holidays.  Substance Abuse Addiction.  Substance Addiction Recovery and Internet Safety. 

Remember to visit todaysautisticmoment.com for podcast updates, new and previously published shows and to read about the upcoming Autistic Voices Round Table Discussions.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

Philip King-Lowe
Before we wrap this up, I told you before the interview began that I was gonna ask you this. How did you come to call yourself the Neurodivergent Rebel?

Lyric Holmans 
Yeah, so when I was first diagnosed Autistic, I was 29 years old. So there's been a lot of names I have been called throughout the years being unintentionally gaslit beset by society that I was somehow wrong. And all of these things and rebellious is one of those names I've been called very, very frequently and it was not meant to be a good thing. But you know, I also am a queer Autistic person and and in queer culture, there is a history of reclaiming things that have been used against you. And I thought, Rebel and reclaiming that would be a perfect way to empower myself with something that had meant to be bad about really summing up a lot of my neuro divergence. Once I found I was just like, it was like, Oh, my gosh, I'm not any of these names that I had. society had told me and I had believed about myself, none of this was true. I am Autistic. Oh my gosh, and I'm ADHD. Oh, that explains so much more. Oh, okay. I can get on with my life now. But, you know, I needed to redefine myself. And that's me defining myself on my own terms and saying, you know what, yeah, I am a rebel and I'm gonna give you heck for it. 

Philip King-Lowe  
Yeah, absolutely Yes. Yes, I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, to wrap this up a little more gaslighting is a way so that a lot of Autistics can be suggested that somehow we're irrelevant to society. And what I really want to do through Today's Autistic Moment is give Autistics the information, to explain our barriers, and to talk about how to self advocate, so that we continue to say no, where we are not irrelevant to society. We are not, you know, individuals just sitting in group homes or sitting in our rooms just doing nothing. We are adding something to society just by being us. And, you know, part of, um, advocacy for Autistics, is just making that case that, you know, we're Autistic. And being Autistic is not bad. It's just different. Right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we do deserve respect and we do deserve to give ourselves some self respect. And, but one of the tragedies of gaslighting is it tries to deny us that opportunity. And we know we're saying that no, we don't have to accept gaslighting. We can say no, we're not accepting it. We are better than this. We are more than this. That's a good thing. All right. Well, Lyric, thank you so much for being on today.

Lyric Holmans
Thanks for the opportunity. This was a great like, really deep conversation I like I like the hard ones. Yeah, let's get into the meat of things.

Philip King-Lowe  
Absolutely. Well, we need to do this because Autistic Adults, we really do need this, this heart of information, we need these hard questions, to really come to a deeper understanding of ourselves and release ourselves from the effects of abuses like this. That's why I feel this is so important. So okay, thank you once again. 

Lyric Holmans
Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai 

If you would like to read more about gaslighting check out Terra Vance’s article 50 Ways Society Gaslights and Stonewalls Autistic People.  Another great article is Toxic Positivity, Gaslighting, and Tone Policing Autistic People.  The final article I recommend is Autism and Gaslighting-Joely Williams Speaks on ‘All Things Autism.”  You can find the links to these articles on todaysautisticmoment.com/adult-autism/.

Remember to purchase your tickets by 3:00pm on August 10^th, to attend the special live virtual event Autistic Adults and Employment with Samuel Levine on August 10^th at 7:00pm.  Tickets are only $10.00 per person, or you can purchase tickets for Groups of 4 for only $7.00 each.  Go to todaysautisticmoment.com/lve/.

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

On Sunday, September 19^th, 2021, Minnesota Independence College and Community invites you to their 4^th Annual IndePENNdance 5k Run/Walk at Donaldson Park in Richfield, Minnesota.  Check In/Registration is at 9:15am, the race starts at 10:00am.  Go to www.miccommunity.org/5k. 

Understanding Autism and Best Strategic Practices virtual class will be on Monday, August 16^th, 2021 starts at 6:00-8:00pm. Go to ausm.org to register. Send an email to eringgenberg@ausm.org for more information.

Registration is now open to attend the virtual Autism Community Summit 2021 on Saturday, September 18, 2021, from 9:00am to 4:30pm. 

Go to ausm.org to register.

If you have any questions for me, you can always send an email to PKLowe@todaysautisticmoment.com    todaysautisticmoment@gmail.com 

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.