What is Autistic Leadership?

Transcript

What is Autistic Leadership?

March 9th, 2025

Episode Preview

Carole Jean-Whittington and I are going to discuss the concept of Autistic leadership, emphasizing its non-hierarchical structure and collaborative nature. Carole will highlight the importance of self-leadership and self-compassion, noting that Autistic leaders often lead by example and within our community. We will address the challenges faced by Autistic Women, particularly in navigating burnout and societal expectations. Our conversation will also touch on the interdependence within the Autistic community and the need for support systems.  Carole Jean-Whittington is the host of the Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast and author who brings her articulation and enthusiasm to this conversation about What is Autistic Leadership? on Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 1

♫ Today’s Autistic Moment’s Theme Song, Today is Your Day ♫

Today is your day on Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult. Where Autistic Adults get to be yourselves in a space that is safe and made especially for you. While listening to this podcast, stim and fidget all you like.

This first segment of Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored by The Autism Society of Minnesota, known as AuSM throughout Minnesota’s Autism Community. As Minnesota’s First Autism Resource for more than 50 years, AuSM serves the whole state, the whole spectrum for the whole life. Visit AuSM at ausm.org.

Before we begin to dig into today’s topic, I want to give some basic information about Today’s Autistic Moment to help all listeners find our many resources.

Please visit todaysautisticmoment.com where you can listen to the podcast, get transcripts, program updates, and read the guest bios pages. You can also visit the Adult Autism Resources Links Page. Please visit the Future Shows Page to read the titles, guests, and descriptions of all the shows coming up. The transcripts are sponsored by Minnesota Independence College & Community. There is a link provided to get access to a document form of the transcript without the purple-colored background so that you can print it without using up the ink on your printer. The written document has a font that is accessible for dyslexics. There are additional transcripts available in Spanish, German, French, and Chinese Simplified.

Please follow Today’s Autistic Moment on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Blue Sky.  Join Today’s Autistic Moment Community Group page on Facebook for conversations and updates. Please subscribe to the YouTube channel @todaysautisticmoment to watch the newest episode of Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussions: I Am Autistic. I Am Not Disordered.  My panelists Eric Garcia, Daren Howard, Jillian Nelson and I talked together about the moment when we discovered that we are Autistic, and when we realized that we are not disordered.  We spoke about how the recent remarks that suggest that Autism is a “danger to society” and that there is no “Autism epidemic.” If you are looking for some great talking points to help you have conversations about how to advocate for Autistics in these harsh times, this new episode of Autistic Voices Roundtable Discussions will help you do that.

After this first commercial break, Carole Jean-Whittington and I will discuss What is Autistic Leadership?

♫ Segment Ending Music ♫

Commercial Break I

Podcast Apps

Today’s Autistic Moment can be downloaded and heard on most podcast apps including Apple. Google Play. Breaker. Castbox. Overcast. iHeartRadio. Pocket Casts. RadioPublic. Spotify. TuneIn. Pandora. Amazon Music. Audible. Podcast Addict. Podcast Chaser. If you are looking for transcripts, go to todaysautisticmoment.com, click on the episode you want to listen to and follow the directions to find the transcripts. 

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment

♫ Looking Forward Life Coaching Ad ♫

♫Best Care Ad♫

Segment 2

♫Segment Beginning Music♫

Philip King-Lowe 

Carole Jean Whittington, it is my pleasure to welcome you back to Today's Autistic Moment. I am really excited to have you here and to talk about a topic that I know you are able to discuss. So welcome back, my friend.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Oh, thrilled to be here, as always. Philip, thanks for having me.

Philip King-Lowe 

You're welcome.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Yes, it is one of my favorite topics.

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, the thing is, is that you are able to talk about Autistic and ADHD, and, of course, burnout, which is your specialty, but you're also able to talk about the diversity that exists. So, I know that when we talk about what is Autistic leadership? You are going to give some of the best advice, and I always appreciate your enthusiasm and your depth as well as making it accessible information. And so that's what I'm glad to have you here. To start off, let's build a foundation for our conversation today. And I'm just going to ask it this way, what does Autistic leadership look like in light of my topic this year, which is Navigating the Future of Multidimensional Autistic Leadership?

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

So, I'm going to say we have to back up, actually, just a freckle before that and really just start with what is leadership first? And you know, if we take the dictionary definition, it's the action of leading a group of people or an organization. And I love McKinsey and Company's definition of just leadership in general. And its leadership is a set of mindsets and behaviors that align people in a collective direction and enables them to work together and accomplish shared goals and helps them adjust to changing environments. I think that's such a beautiful and really wonderful definition. I also just adore Robin Sharma, and he talks about how he has a word that I use, and I love, and it's called “possibilitarian.” And I think as we move into talking about Autistic leadership, we are “possibilitarians,” just I think it is part of our nature. It's part of our makeup as Autistic people. And Robin Sharma has a definition of leadership. And he says leadership is not about a title or position. And I think that so speaks to how we as Autistic people approach leadership. You know, we don't have these social norms of title or position when we think about leadership. And Robin Sharma says that leadership is rather about the ability to positively influence, inspire and impact others through your actions, leaving them better than you found them, and to me, that really speaks to how I have become to define and live being an Autistic leader.

Philip King-Lowe 

I want to refer back to something that Devon Price said, and my audience is going to hear this a lot this year, and you know that, but what I loved about what he defined as Autistic leadership is that Autistics are able to lead without a hierarchical environment. I thought that was just brilliant. You want to, can you? Can you, you know, add a little bit more to that?

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Yes, because that's what I'm talking that's what I'm talking about, specifically, as I shift us from, like, how, what are the societal norms and the accepted definition of leadership, you know? So, we kind of just laid that out. But I think when we're talking about Autistic leadership, specifically, you know, as Devon shared, we are not hierarchical. You know, as Robin Sharma says, it’s not about the title or the position, and I, I tend to look at how we as Autistic people, approach leadership in a very different way from the rest of the world, and that is, we are more collaborative in nature. And I think that's one of the biggest differences, it's not hierarchical, as Devon shared, but I say it's also a collaborative leadership approach that we take. And I want to go a little deeper on this, Philip, if you're willing, willing to go with me, my friend,

Philip King-Lowe 

That's why I asked you on to talk about this, go right ahead.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

We can have a conversation around leadership and even talk about how we lead in different ways. You know from our cultural norms. Because Autistic people, we have cultural norms. But I think the root of beautiful collaborative leadership, where we are leaving people better than we found them, where we are being a positive influence, and where we are truly connecting heart to heart with another person, with another group of people, moving in an agreed upon destination. It begins with self-leadership. Yes. We cannot lead others until we have learned to lead ourselves and in in my book, coming out May 2, on my birthday this year, my book is called: Unveil You, and it's the foundations of an intimate, authentic relationship with yourself, and when we're talking about leadership, beginning with that self-leadership piece is so very powerful.

Philip King-Lowe 

I totally agree with that. The other part that needs to be said on this is that Autistics lead as we interact with our Autistic Culture. You know, Rachel Cullen was on last April, by which they say, when you begin with Autistic Culture and Language, and I'm going to add leadership here, we don't start with how we lead others outside the Autistic community until we lead within the culture of Autistics. Because we as Autistics, we know each other's strengths, we know each other's challenges. And you know what's funny about this is that, again, going back to Devon Price, he said, “Well, it's obvious. Well, it's obvious to other Autistics anyway. We actually socialize better than we're given credit for. And I love how you, you blow the myth away that we can't lead because of our because of how much we're stigmatized by, by non-Autistics. And so, I love, I love how you're doing this. I really do. I think we want to really talk about too that when Autistics lead, we lead by leading ourselves. And in a couple weeks, you're going to hear from my audience is going to hear from Becca Lory Hector. We're going to talk about Self-Care is Personal Autistic Leadership.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

But, oh, I love that. So, you know, that sparked my joy.

Philip King-Lowe 

But yeah. And this is where you to, I mean, you do talk about, you know, personal self-care here, and you're right. We can't lead others unless we're also leading ourselves. And that's one of those things that I feel is so wonderfully counter cultural, in the sense that, you know, we're not just taking care of everybody else, we're taking care of ourselves, so that we can, of course, be caring for the Autistic community right now, and we're still in need of that multidimensional leadership, and it begins with taking care of ourselves. So please continue on from that as you feel led.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

I think there are some beautiful components to self-leadership. Specifically, we're talking about that intimate, authentic connection, relationship with ourselves. Because what I've noticed is very different in Autistic leadership versus the rest of the world's definition and understanding, right? It's usually this title, this position, and because I've "earned it", or, you know, because I'm I look this way, or I sound this way, or I show up this way, then I'm the leader, right? We they look, you know, in the external world, they're looking at different qualities. And I find, from a cultural perspective, in the Autistic world, we're looking at, what kind of vibe do I get from you, right? You know what's your heart? What matters to you? What sparks your joy? What lights you up? We're looking at leadership from that place more often and in that collaborative way of you know, we specifically, I think, from a cultural norm, standard. And I mean, this varies. Not everybody has this to the same degree, but we're very just minded. If we see an injustice, something is wrong, if somebody is not being treated well, if something isn't working and it's broken, and we see a really easy way to fix it, or we see how to fix it, we immediately jump in and just do it. Because why wouldn't you fix it? Why would you leave that broken or in a way that's harming someone? And I, I have to say that in my research into Autistic burnout, one of the things that I lived for myself, and what I hear, you know, in the interviews, as I've spoken to hundreds of almost 1000s of people over the last four years, around their burnout experience, it's that we don't take care of ourselves first, typically. And when we're talking about leadership and really stepping into, and I love you're going to have this conversation with Becca Lory Hector, this is such a big one, but self-leadership begins with self-compassion.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes. Very good.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

It begins with courage, yep, to look at ourselves. It begins with, I say it's a duality here. It's compassionate curiosity.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes. And it also is, again, what, what Devon said was, we are the first to say," No, I am not going to follow that unjust rule, and I am not going to be used as someone's tool of oppression." We are very good at identifying something that is unjust and say, no, I am not going to fit myself into that unjust mold. I'm going to create my own, and I'm going to make it work for me, right?

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

And thank goodness for the folks in our Autistic community who are brave and courageous and show up that way, because there's a whole other section of us that feel that way, but through trauma and life experience, we're terrified because the world does not feel safe to us, and even though we see it and it wounds us, and we are hurt by it, and we want to fix it, we're too scared to.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes, and you know that's what troubles me most about the environment right now. You know within politics, but also what's happening within the social sphere for Autistics is that you know, the systems that we've created to, you know, make us more visible to ourselves, and also, you know, to express our concerns and get our needs met. Those systems are being challenged right now, and of course, it's scaring the life out of a lot of us. And let me just say up front, you are we are validating your concern as to why you would be afraid. But I am also going to say that you this is where your leadership begins, with finding ways to look after yourself. You know, you and I have talked in the past about how like we like to be people pleasers, and I'm sure you can say as well as I can say that one of the biggest logs for the fire of burnout is that we try to please everybody else, but we don't take care of ourselves. And this is why you and Becca Lory Hector and I and several others we talk it's important for you to look after yourself. You can't really change an environment around you if you're not looking after your own needs. And you know, we know sometimes just getting that space by yourself, you have to literally make your boundaries, which we're going to talk about also with this. If you don't do that, then, like I say, it's difficult for you to feel like you're getting ahead or getting control. And you know, you know, we live in a society that has really, really gaslighted Autistics feeling what you're feeling, what you what you're actually feeling. So, a lot of that really causes a lot of us to second guess ourselves, or even gaslight ourselves as to what we're feeling. But quite frankly, if you're feeling angry, you're angry, you have a right to if you're feeling sad and you need to burst in tears, and you need to do that for yourself too, because part of your looking after yourself is, is meeting you yourself, where you're feeling these things, and let yourself feel them. And then, you know, then you can, kind of, over time, try to find your ways of coming back so that you can you can continue. I've said this in the past too. The thing about emotions is that when you're feeling emotion, you're not exactly rational, and if you're not rational, then it's hard to determine what to do next. So that's why you need to look after yourself.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

There's a lot to unpack in what you just said, oh yeah. May I? May I unpack some of this please for our audience listening, because I think this is really important. Let's start with the people pleasing part. It is usually a survival response by so many of us, to stay safe, to feel safe, and that people pleasing part, one of the things that really helped open me up to stepping out of I am a recovering people pleaser y'all, I am still always working on this one deeply ingrained right from childhood. But one of the important things that really helped me begin to step into self-leadership and leadership within the community was, am I willing to sacrifice my peace later, long term peace for some temporary peace in this moment? Yep. And that was big for me. And the reason that people pleasing emerges for so many of us is as we are developing, as we are exploring, and we're discovering the world, and we're sharing very openly. You know that light hurts me. It's too bright. You know this, these clothes don't feel good to me. It makes my skin burn, you know? Or my feelings were hurt, and I'm crying, and it really hurt my feelings. I'm hurt, I'm sad, and the world responds to all of that with nobody else is hurt by the light. It's just bothering you. It's you, it's you. Weird that you can’t possibly be experiencing that, or why are you crying? No one else is crying. She said the same thing to everybody else in this group. Why are you overreacting and being so dramatic? Right? So, all of that messaging creates something internally.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yes.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

And that says I cannot trust myself. The world is telling me my experiences, even though I know I feel them, but when I share them, it I'm being told they're wrong or they're not accurate, so I can't even trust that experience and how that impacts our self-leadership is tremendous.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yep, yep.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

And for those of us who are alexithymic and we have all the feelings, and they show up and they're really big, and our whole body is like feeling the feels, but we don't know how to transcribe it to make sense of it in our mind, whether it's the good stuff, the bad stuff, or the neutral in between stuff. So, we've learned to push it down, suppress it, and put it in its own little box and compartmentalize it, because it doesn't feel safe, because our brain goes, I don't know what that is, so we just have to move it over here and box it up, and you just keep going, that's right. And all of that shows up in how we lead ourselves and whether we are leading or not leading within our own lives first, and then how that extends to the people we love. Because really, when we're talking about leadership, we're talking about the relationship and how we lead ourselves, and we're talking about how we lead the people we love.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yep, absolutely, which really comes down to, as Autistic individuals, part of your own self-leadership so that you can lead others, includes just giving over that idea that there's something wrong with you, and we will both tell you, no, there is not something wrong with you. You are the way you were made, or the way you come to this world. And it's important, it's valid. And you know, we are who we are, and we have to be that way.

After this next commercial break, Carole will share her heart felt thoughts with the many intersectional Autistic communities that are being harmed by actions from our current administration.  We will also talk about some organizations that have been creating environments for Autistic leaders and the role that interdependence and independence plays in Autistic leadership.

♫ Segment Ending Music ♫

Commercial Break II

♫MICC Ad♫

♫ITI Assistive Technologies Ad♫

♫ Lisa Morgan Consulting Ad ♫

This episode of Today’s Autistic Moment features author and podcaster Carole Jean-Whittington. This installment is focused on empowering Autistic Adults to thrive amidst challenging rhetoric that scapegoats Neurodivergent individuals. The podcast aims to provide support and insights for the Autistic community through conversations with Autistic advocates who are working towards systemic change by sharing authentic experiences of Autistic Adults.

To continue providing valuable content and support for Autistic Adults, Today's Autistic Moment is seeking your financial assistance. Supporters can contribute in several ways:

1.    You can make a one-time donation through the Ko-fi icon when you tap or click on Support Today’s Autistic Moment on todaysautisticmoment.com.

2.    You can become a monthly supporter via Patreon.

3.    You can purchase Today's Autistic Moment merchandise, such as 16oz drinking cups or lapel pins, from the Logo Shop.

While donations are not tax-deductible, they help maintain the podcast's production quality by funding studio expenses, software, and equipment. By supporting Today's Autistic Moment, listeners contribute to the continuation of important conversations and resources for the Autistic community.

Thank you for your support of Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 3

♫Segment Beginning Music♫

Philip King-Lowe

I'm going to lead into our next question, which is, we know that Autistics are engaging in Autistic leadership, and how can we create environments to affect change? Among the problems that we right now have is that our intersectional communities, especially our LGBTQ communities, and in particular, our transgender communities, are really being hit hard. And let me return to something that I have said on numerous occasions; a lot of Autistics are transgender by nature. It's just a fact that has been circulating. So actually, when they're when they're harming, when statements are being said that harm transgender people, they are harming the Autistic community as a whole. So, let's put that aside now, and also because of the fact that I have become a believer that Autistic individuals, regardless of the gender you were born in, or your even your sexual orientation, whatever that may be, we are gender non-conforming. We do not conform to what most people would say is male or female. Okay, so part of engaging I want to say, and then I'll let you talk Carole, is that we accept ourselves and that the other part is that we are always somehow engaged in the work of getting to know our intersectional communities and being a voice for those intersectional communities as best as we can. Because, you know, whatever our cultural differences are our, our, whatever our particular differences are, we are all engaged in that work together, and it really comes down to recognizing who we are and who others are around us. Carole, take off on that.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

I think before we move into systemic gaps, or how to begin stepping into your authentic Autistic leadership, I would love for your heart to hear me for a moment. My precious darling, you are already whole. There is nothing missing from you, nothing added to you or taken away from you, would change how wonderful you already are, how enough and worthy you already are. For me, right now, I think the most impactful thing I can do to lead to make sure that the people who are truly terrified right now, who do not feel safe because the space that was being created and had been created that was supporting them has been erased. I think this is from a leadership standpoint, the opportunity and possibilities abound because I believe in the universal law that there is not a problem, that in a solution does not already exist. And I believe part of the beauty of Autistic leadership is that we are so creative. We can be we are beautiful, systemic thinkers in so many ways, and we are creative in just the most absolutely blissful ways. And we can look at the 30,000-foot view and the micro macro levels, the Nano levels of all the components simultaneously, many of us, and I believe that right now is the beautiful opportunity for us to claim and lead in ways that we didn't look for before, because solutions were there, right? And so, I think it's just humans, people, we get a little comfy and complacent. And I think that right now is a beautiful opportunity. And I think part of it is that it starts in our own backyards. Yes. You must start with where you live, your physical geography. I love the global connection that we have, and I love how very global we are as a community of Autistic people and as a culture, how we're beginning to connect and really nurture the development of our culture. And I think that we take that, and we bring that into our own backyards in small ways. It doesn't have to be huge, because it's that butterfly effect. It's that what is the beating of the butterfly's wing in the rainforest ripples out, it ends up being a tsunami on the other side of the world. I mean, this is truly, I believe, the strength, the power and the uniqueness of Autistic leadership. And I believe that we are given this opportunity right now, and I am imploring. I am calling you up. I am saying, rise, stand strong. Begin with your own self leadership, and begin in your own backyard, because this is how we do this together. Absolutely. Not, you know, I love the African proverb, if you want to go far, go alone. You know, fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And as collaborative folks, I believe we go together, and we go very far.

Philip King-Lowe 

You know, one of the reasons I wanted to take on this focus for this year, right after I started Today's Autistic Moment, back in 2021 we were still in the admittedly leaning end of the pandemic. And after I started recording and publishing shows, I just happened to wander on and find LinkedIn. And what blew me away was the Autistics who were showing up on there, and they were already the process of saying, you know, we may be quarantined, and we have to worry about our health right now, and we have so much stuff around us, but that's not going to change the fact that I need to learn more about my Autistic self, and I need to network with other Autistics to learn how I can gain a better appreciation of ourselves. And that's where a lot of the voices that my audience is hearing on Today's Autistic Moment they came from those connections. I mean, it was just amazing to me. And so, one thing that I do believe from experience, and from that, especially that experience, boy, when we get into a spot where we've got to do some things, and we get an environment like LinkedIn, because we don't have the nasty comments that go on and other social media platforms. But the point is, is that when we do things like that, the Autistic community shines to me.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Yes, I agree.

Philip King-Lowe 

You know, what I mean? I mean we saw all kinds of folks on there coming out of the woodwork. And including one who actually isn't Autistic. That was Samuel J Levine. He’s done a lot of work on employment and that sort of thing. He came out he, he said, I want to be on your show, because I've longed to talk about this in a place where I know I can, you know, that sort of thing. So

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

That's what do you do best, Philip.

Philip King-Lowe 

Thank you, no. But I'm saying, you know, it was just one of those things where I said, wow, you know, the world may be quarantining still, and we may be still wearing our masks or whatever, but I see this whole group of people who are saying, I'm not just taking this lying down anymore. I'm going to take I'm going to do what I have to do for myself, but I'm going to network with other people and find out. How can we do this? What are some ways we can do this? We saw authors coming together. We saw podcasters coming together. I mean, before I started the podcast and before I found LinkedIn, I didn't know that there were other Autistic podcasters out there. And once I found them on LinkedIn, I said, Oh no, I'm not alone in this. I'm just doing

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Oh goodie, goodie.

Philip King-Lowe 

I know. I'm just doing it from one particular focus perspective. And I said, well, we got some who are doing it, like, like Angela Kingdon with the Autistic Culture Podcast, we've got, you know, several people like you, and several I'm like, wow, I didn't know they were there. And then I found them. I said this, and that's where I say, the strength of the Autistic community. You know, we have our problems because of society marginalizing us, yes, but let me tell you something I've learned the Autistic Adult community, when we're ready to start doing something about it, we have amazing minds that come to say, I'm going to do something in my own way, and I'm going to make a difference. And they do, they most certainly do, and that's what I say. Part of the gift of Today's Autistic Moment is finding them and giving them this safe space. Use your voices. Let's tell the world the truth about who we are, right?

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Yes, absolutely.

Philip King-Lowe 

I just and that's the perfect way to lead into my third question, which we're talking about interdependence, really. You know, let's talk about how Autistics are leaders through their lives, in their unique context. And that's exactly what we're talking about here. I mean, we're talking about Autistic leading themselves, but we're also talking about when we come together, when we come together and we do our thing from whatever perspective we happen to be in. We change; we change things for the Autistic culture. Within the Autistic culture, I mean, you know, when I started going to the Autistic Community Summit and the Autism conferences with the Autism Society Minnesota, I was so pleased because I was in a breakout session, and there's these several people sitting along the side of the room or sitting against the rear wall, they're stimming, they're fidgeting, they're just going through their phones, and everybody's just okay. That's how you want to do things fine. You know? Those are the things I love about this community, so and that was your turn, Carole.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

I think when we talk about that interconnectedness, right, I think AJ Locashio and Jessica Jahns just knew such an interdisciplinary right, yes, how that they do such a beautiful job of talking about this topic, which you absolutely have to have them here to have that conversation. I know that you've met them in person, and I'm so jealous that you've gotten to do that, but I think my spin, my take on that, is as humans, no matter our neurotype, we are interdependent upon one another.

Philip King-Lowe 

Absolutely.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

In modern age, we do not go to the grocery store and buy XYZ that at least 10 other people have not had some part in making sure it was there and available for you to purchase and take home. You might say, oh, I this is my paycheck. I earned it, and I'm going to go to the bank and I'm going to deposit it, and I'm going to go to the grocery store and I'm going to buy it, I'm going to come home, I'm going to cook it and I'm going to eat it. And I did all of that by myself. No, you didn't. That is an illusion that you've told yourself, because we hear and I think this is one of the things that is so harmful, and it is heartbreaking when I hear parents say to their child or say to someone else, I just want my Autistic child to be independent. Yet they themselves are not independent. It is this false definition and belief of what being independent is. We are all interdependent upon one another. And I think one of the beautiful things about the Autistic culture, and when we talk about leadership within our culture, in this collaborative place, right, we see something, or we see someone is struggling and they need help, man, we all come together. We're like, oh, how can we help you? What do you need, right? Or I've got this thing. Here you go. And I think that if we took more of that collaborative nature, that cultural norm of how we support one another, without thinking twice about it. I very, know very few Autistic people that think, oh, well, this is mine and I don't want to share it. It's just like, oh, here you go. And then we're like, oh, I might need some of that. Can I have a little bit back?

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

We don't move forward without one another.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yep, that's right. You know, this is where I get to talk about Minnesota Independence College & Community, and some of their folks are coming on in April to talk about educating the future autistic leaders that we have in the world. Because that program is absolutely incredible. Minnesota Independence College & Community has taken a suite in an apartment building, and they help Autistics and others with various learning differences. I know some don't like that term, so I'm sorry, but there are some with various learning differences can take a college like education, and they can be given, you know, earn actual jobs and that sort of thing. But more importantly, they actually use some of the apartments in that building, so that the students can learn about living with others around them. You know, they get to learn how to do laundry and manage some of their executive functioning, and they get to learn how to deal with other people who might be in a conflict with they learn how to do those things okay. And we know that for a lot of Autistics, putting us in an environment where we can actually learn, learn some of this, or develop ourselves. It really does. It really does wonder. And Minnesota Independence College & Community is doing exactly that. Now, I would suggest that part of independence is also learning to be interdependent. Being interdependent also comes from learning something, some things about being independent. And you know, MICC and other programs like it, they're working to help them build those skills. So, you know, it's one of Minnesota's great programs that I love. And as you know, Minnesota Independence College & Community is a generous sponsor of Today's Autistic Moment, and that's one of the reasons why I love having them on board. And so, like I said, they're going to talk about Educating the Future of Autistic Leadership, and boy, do they do a great job on it, you know. And then the other part that's we're going to talk about in April is going to be Mentoring Future Autistic Leadership. Because Emily Goldberg, whom I've met in person, what she did is she's worked with several other Neurodivergent individuals to come together and bring Autistic adults together to mentor Autistic teens and youth. Because a lot of us have said, you know, if only we had had someone else who was Autistic when we were younger, if only we had had some people to relate to. Well, this organization is doing just that. During the school year, they have this hour-long session with mentees and mentors, and they play games or just talk, or they just do whatever they do. And these are people in Minnesota who are changing this landscape so that leaders can be born, and leaders can be mentored, and leaders can thrive. So that's what we're going to do in for Autism Month in April. But you know, I mean Carole, this is kind of an example of what we're talking about, but I think Autistic leadership means, you know, I don't want to say giving us our space to lead, but also, what's the word I want to say, nurturing ourselves to lead. What do you think of those terms?

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

I like nurturing and one of the things that I have discovered for myself and in the unveiling method and here at Whittington Well-Being, one of the focuses that we have is mentoring, mentoring, peer mentoring, as well as mentoring to the next generation Autistics. And I'm going to say that I believe Autistic leadership is you do not need someone else's permission to lead. Give yourself permission to lead. Own your space. It is yours, darling. You do not have to ask for permission. Step into it, in yourself, leadership, inner leadership with others, within your family, within your community, you do not need permission to lead, and when you do, you are helping others give themselves permission to step up and lead as well, especially the next generation.

After this final commercial break, Carole will say a few words about how she sees Autistic Women leading, followed by Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board.

♫ Segment Ending Music ♫

Commercial Break III

♫ The Autistic Coach Ad ♫

Future Shows

On March 23rd, Becca Lory Hector will join me for the episode Self-Care is Personal Autistic Leadership. When we take care of ourselves by setting boundaries to regulate our Autistic needs, we are doing personal leadership. Becca and I will talk about self-care is taking ownership of our health and well-being so that we can do the important work of leadership through the example how we interact with the world around us.

Autism Month in April begins on April 13th during an episode with Jenna Olson, a graduate from Minnesota Independence College & Community to talk about Educating Future Autistic Leadership.  Jenna will talk about how MICC prepared her for independent living with a fulfilling career in a college that gave her the supports to be successful. MICC educates future Autistic leaders who will lead by example as they navigate through the challenges they face.  

On April 27th, Emily Goldberg and Anna Voight with The Autism Mentorship Program will talk about Mentoring Future Autistic Leadership.  The Autism Mentorship program is very successful because Autistic Adults mentor Autistic teens and youth.  Through sharing special interests, playing games, or just being with an Autistic Adult, Autistic teens find safe spaces with people who help them feel safe to be themselves.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

♫ Segment Beginning Music ♫

Segment 4

Philip King-Lowe 

I don't want Autistic Women to think I'm ignoring them, especially since we're in March for Women's History Month. So, my final question to you, Carole, is going to you know, because you work with Autistic Women and burnout and that sort of thing, would you like to talk about how you see Autistic Women leading? What are some things you've seen and tell us some things that you've learned as you've been helping them through burnout and you're seeing them lead. So go ahead.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Oh, that is such a beautiful question. And I love how it just sparked all the joy and all the wiz pops. We are recording this on a Tuesday, and this is the day that I have I host our accelerate membership for the unveiling method, and this is where Autistic Women come together, and I give guidance around whatever particular module someone's working on right now in the unveiling method and their journey out of burnout. And as we talk about self-leadership, and we talk about leading others, this is how I have seen beautiful leadership from women, Autistic Women today in particular, and that was sharing the things that were scary, out loud to another person. Allowing in that brave, courageous moment, leading themselves, saying, I'm stepping out on a limb. And this is what I was thinking, this is how I was feeling. And I got a whole lot of stuff going on my head about what it means, but I know that half of it, or 90% of it, isn't true, but I trust myself, and I trust this group, and I'm going to share it, and when one person simply led by example in that scary moment, the whole group opened, and everyone then said, this was mine. This was how I was feeling, or this is what's going on with me right now. And I think that that's one of the ways uniquely as Autistic Women, because there's a lot of shame, there's a lot of guilt, there's a lot of heavy, hurtful things that we have carried quietly, silently from childhood into our adulthood, and that is a place where we can harness that as we begin to heal from within and as we step into that self-leadership, it translates out into the world, into our families, into our workplaces, into our communities. And to me, it is this power of unmasking. I say unveiling, unveiling you to yourself first, and then how beautiful it is when an Autistic Woman says, I am removing this veil, I am setting this mask down, and I'm going to allow you to see me, and I'm going to shine my light.

Philip King-Lowe 

Absolutely, yes, yep, yep, yeah. And what I love about that is that it flies in the face of the misconceptions about Autistic Women. Number one, the misconception that you don't exist, which is nonsense.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

That we have too many big feelings.

Philip King-Lowe 

I once had a spiritual director who was fond of saying that, you know, the reason why nonsense is so popular is because people actually pay attention to it. And he was not wrong anyway. But yeah, I mean, yeah. Well. Carole Jean-Whittington, it is always my pleasure to talk with you and to have you here. Once again, you brought your enthusiasm and your information, your experience, to my audience, and it is a wonderful thing to see. And so, thank you so much for this, and you know you my friend and me, we're in this together from our own place perspective, the place where we can make an impact. And it is my pleasure to be partnered with you in this work. So, thank you so much.

Carole Jean Whittington, Beyond Chronic Burnout Podcast 

Oh, thank you. It is always an honor. It is a privilege, and it is the joy of my heart to be able to have conversation with you and to be able to collaborate and work together in our shared leadership at the Autistic community.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, thank you so much.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All these events and many others with their links not mentioned here are available on

todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard.

You are invited to the Adult Coffee Club for Autistic Adults in Minnesota.  They are held on the second Tuesday of every month (weather permitting) at Dogwood Coffee located at 2700 University Ave W. Suite 100 in St. Paul, Minnesota. Zip Code is 55114. The Adult Coffee Clubs will begin at 4pm to 6pm on March 11th. April 15th. May 13th. June 10th.

Understanding Autism virtual classes are offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. The next classes will be on March 10th, 6-7pm. April 14th, 10-11am. May 12th, 12-1pm and June 9th, 6-7pm. Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

Beginning on Saturday, March 15th and continuing March 22nd and the 29th, from 10am to 1:30pm, Jillian Nelson will present the workshop Policy Power: Advocacy for An Inclusive Future.

Register today to attend the 30th Minnesota Autism Conference, April 16th through the 18th at the Doubletree by Hilton Minneapolis Airport Hotel, on 2020 American Blvd. in East Bloomington, MN 55425. There will be keynote speakers, in person and virtual breakout sessions, social opportunities for community building, and resource tables. The hyperlink to this event is on the transcript.

Go to ausm.org to get more information about these and other social and recreational programs, educational events, counseling services and support groups at The Autism Society of Minnesota.

MNeurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing Neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections.  Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect regardless of ability or preferences. Go to their new website mneurodivergent.org for more information, become a member, volunteer and attend their events.

Umbrella US invites you to a webinar by Brainbow Media on March 19th, at 10am Central Standard Time entitled: Accessibility Today Equals a Better Tomorrow. The cost is $20.00, and scholarships are available. Go to the transcript for this episode or  todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard and click on ACCESSIBILITY TODAY to register.

Today’s Autistic Moment is here because of the generosity of supporters and sponsors.  Please go to todaysautisticmoment.com and select “Support Today’s Autistic Moment” to donate. 

If you have questions about Today’s Autistic Moment, please send an email to todaysautisticmoment@gmail.com.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

May you have an Autistically Amazing day.

♫ Closing Background Music with credits ♫

All of the guests meet with me on Zoom to record the interviews. The interview transcripts are provided by Otter. The podcast is prepared and edited on WavePad Masters Edition by NCH Software.  The podcast is published by Spotify for Podcasters.  The Music that you hear is licensed to Today’s Autistic Moment by premiumbeat.com.

 #autistic #leadership #autisticadult #disability #womenshistorymonth #transgender #autisticwomen #lgbtqia+ #self-care #autisticleadership