Self-Care: Grief Management & Support

Transcript

Self-Care: Grief Management & Support

September 8th, 2024

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Autistics grieve in unique ways.  Some may not appear to be grieving at all, while others show their grief constantly.  Grief for Autistics might show up in laughter, complete withdrawal, or needing to be around others while not discussing their feelings.  However each Autistic manages their grief, their self-care needs to be respected, validated and supported on their own terms.  On this episode of Today’s Autistic Moment, Lisa Morgan will talk about how Autistics experience disenfranchised grief and how they can manage and support themselves. Join us now for this important topic.

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Segment 1

Welcome everyone to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by an Autistic Adult. My name is Philip King-Lowe. I am the owner, producer, and host; and I am an Autistic Adult. Thank you so very much for listening.

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Stay with us after this first commercial break when Lisa Morgan and I will discuss Self-Care: Grief Management & Support.

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Segment 2

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Philip King-Lowe 

Lisa Morgan, welcome back to Today's Autistic Moment. I enjoy having you here, and we're talking about a really important, relevant topic today. So, welcome back.

Lisa Morgan 

Thank you. Thank you. It's really great to be back.

Philip King-Lowe 

Today, I am concluding my third summer of Self-Care Series. I've been doing these since 2022 and it's really done well, because during the summer months, when life changes a lot and so many other things change, and I like to have this Summer Self-Care Series. I call it the SOSS, because, you know, as my previous guests and I have been talking about, Autistics can do our own self-care. And one Autistic person self-care does not have to look like someone else's. And you know, we really been stressing the importance of self-care. So, you know, one of the things I'm thinking about is this episode is occurring right on September 8th, after we've just moved from the Summer months into the beginning of Fall, lots of people have gone back to school or started school for the first time. We have lots of routine changes in the works, as the seasons change, weather wise and so many things. And my experience, I've done a lot of grief companionship I call it. I like to think of it as walking with if you will. And so, I'm just so grateful that we're talking about this topic, because there's so many things happening in the lives that a lot of Autistic Adults. So, I'm glad to have you here with me to talk about this conversation, this topic.

Lisa Morgan 

I'm glad to be here too.

Philip King-Lowe 

So, let's together, you and me explore this topic of Self -Care: Grief Management and Supports for our Autistic Adult communities, and, of course, many of our intersectional communities where there's so much going on. So, let's start there. Go ahead,

Lisa Morgan 

Sure. So, Autistics experience grief in different ways, and for very many reasons besides the death of a loved one like you, like you just said, when people are starting to go back to school, that change can cause grief for Autistic people. Grief can also come from thwarted belonging, and the thwarted belonging can be the result of just being Autistic in our society or the intentionality of race, sexual orientations, gender, gender identity or disabilities. And the grief of Autistic people can be complex, because many times our grief is called disenfranchised grief, which can leave an Autistic feeling totally alone.

Philip King-Lowe 

Right. Completely isolated. And we also know that there are Autistics out there who may not be entirely aware of their grief. They may not know how they how they're really feeling in that grief. Um, there are some Autistics. Let's start with the death of a loved one who may not feel anything at the moment. They may not feel anything. Even after having gone through the funeral or burial procedures. They may not feel anything. And I know that there are some Autistics who have heard someone say, "Well, don't you care that this person is gone?" You know that sort of thing I've heard, I've heard of people saying things like that, and some of that can just be again because of, you know, sometimes we just don't know what's happening with us. Sometimes we may not feel anything that doesn't necessarily mean we're not grieving. Go ahead.

Lisa Morgan 

That's true. And I mean, yes, Alexithymia, plays a part in that where we don't exactly understand or can't identify our own emotions. Slow processing speed can come in there for us. I know just in my own experience, I had lost a friend in the last year, and when I got the call, I listened to the information while the friend who was calling me was emotionally upset. It wasn't it didn't happen for me for two or three hours later, and then I was alone. I couldn’t on the phone with my friend when I could have shared that emotion, it happened for me two or three hours later, and so then I was alone. So that happens for Autistic people as well.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, definitely. Now you, you started to talk about, as did I about how grief is not necessarily isolated, if you will, for people who have experienced a loss or death of a loved one. And this is where there's so much information about us that really needs to come to the forefront, both for Autistic Adults and those who are around us. The loss of a routine can really bring about some grief. Yes. And of course, accompanying that by some of our caregivers is, "Well, you shouldn't be so upset about that."

Lisa Morgan 

Yes. And you know, I think kids, Autistic kids, you know, can experience that too, as well as teens and young adults when school's out and they have know their semester is over, or the school year is over, and people like, hey, Yay, its summer, you know, or you get to have a summer job, or, you know, do an internship. If you're on, you know, your college summer. But for all of them, they might be feeling the angst of routine change, which results in grief and so that it's a mismatch from what they're hearing and what they're feeling. Right. Which leads into what I had said before about disenfranchised grief. I think a lot of the grief that Autistics experience is disenfranchised grief. And it was coined by Ken Doka in 1989 and what it means it's grief that others do not understand. So, it's not validated. It's minimized, and it just doesn't fit in with society's way of grieving. So, I think a lot of the grief that Autistics experience is different disenfranchised grief.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that term. It's still new to me. I like that phrase, disenfranchised grief. Our grief is not necessarily shared with what other others will experience and again, we will experience it in different ways. You know, there are Autistics who don't really want to be around someone when they're grieving, and that's okay. That's perfectly okay if they feel that way. There are others who they need to be around somebody while they're grieving. They just if they're completely alone, they feel threatened by whatever they may not be able to talk about or identify necessarily. And then and then there's what you have. I you and I have talked about, talked about a year ago, that is really does need to be brought to the forefront again. Our grief may not necessarily be shown in our faces or our body language. You know, there are those who their faces just don't change with their emotions or just as is to know that sort of thing. And so, once again, someone might say, You mean you weren't grieving more than you are? I mean, someone might take to say, you know, they dislike this person, or what. Other people, you know, their grief is very palpable from the outside, and they may not realize what their body language or their facial expressions are saying. You know, I've had many, uh, meetings with various people who have told me that my face suggests that I am angry, and I'm like, That's news to me. You know what I mean?

Lisa Morgan 

I'm just thinking, yeah. And there's also Autistic people who will laugh in their grief. You know, I did some work on one resource that I'll be sharing, autismandgrief.org and I, you know, I wrote some content for the website, and, yeah, some people, some Autistic people, they will laugh. And it has nothing to do with how they're feeling inside. It has to do with how they're regulating, or how they're feeling their emotions. It's, it's just different. There are assumptions that are made depending on body language, which is very different for Autistic people. Everything can be happening on the inside for us, and we can look perfectly common sign on the outside.

Philip King-Lowe 

I also want to talk about some other moments that some grief may show up and either be really intense for some Autistics, or maybe not so intense. You know, maybe the therapist that one has been working with has retired or left the agency, and that therapist just happens to be somebody who's been really making a difference in your life, really making a difference. The loss of that therapist can be a real point of grief, because I know, I know a lot. You know, we get working with this therapist, and we're making all this progress for ourselves. And just when we feel like we've reached a point of feeling a lot better, they get to know that, you know, the therapist that's there. I just want you to know that I'm going to be retiring in about, you know, sick to two months here. And so hopefully they've got a therapist who knows how to work on bringing closure, including listening. Okay, how do you feel about that? You know, tell me how you feel about me retiring or leaving the agency, and then let them get that out and let them help them with a closure the closure process.

Lisa Morgan 

Well, I think for Autistic people, that therapist would do well to also, you know, explore how change is going to work out for that person. Because if they've been seeing the therapist for a long time, and they were doing they were seeing them, say, Mondays at four, you know, right, how is that going to change for them? Because not only will they be grieving the loss of the therapist, but they're going to be experiencing that change, which could also be a different kind of grief. Right? They are also the way Autistic people like to prepare, you know, what? What is that preparation for Mondays at four, what's going to happen then, you know, and helping them to walk through all the aspects of the transition.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, absolutely. I had another kind of conversation a few years back. Someone who is Autistic came into a forum and mentioned that their service animal had died their emotional support animal. And then this person said that she didn't really experience any grief until she went into her therapist's office and saw one of the other clients waiting who had their own service animal. And then she completely lost it, absolutely lost it. And you know, she was like feeling sorry for that, feeling badly about that. And I replied, I said, "Well, it's completely understandable to me why you would." You know our emotional support animals often know our emotions better than we do, you know, and they know exactly what we need when, when we're experiencing those emotions. So, to have that, that relationship torn it, you know, of course it's going to cause some grief and crying and anger and all the rest. Of course, it's going to happen, you know?

Lisa Morgan 

Right, but it was probably from, you know, different than society's way of doing it. There's that shame piece that she felt of she shouldn't be doing this, and that also it's not, it's not like Autistics can just grieve. They also have that shame piece, and a lot of times they have invalidation. Minimizing of their grief. So, it's more than just grieving, it. There are other things involved as well.

Philip King-Lowe 

Absolutely. Another one that I can really identify with. I remember when I was identified back in 2012 actually, sorry, 2011 when I was first, I diagnosed. I went through an intense grieving process for the next three years of grieving the person that I thought I was up to that point in time. Yes. I had made for myself up to that point in time because I realized that that person is now very different. In my mind, the memories and the things that I did are now very different. And for me, one of the deepest parts of my grief was, you know, the career that I had, and I loved so much at the time. I was a church organist and choral director, and I had gone through six years of college to earn that degree, and it was a really big deal for me. And I had had so much trouble keeping my jobs and everything like that, and I realized how many of those professional relationships were destroyed and they can't be repaired. I went through an intense period of grieving that, like I said, it took me a good three years. And you know, there's that sense of the things that I worked for, the things that I thought I had accomplished, which we did. Let's give us credit where credit is due. But then there's that feeling I don't know that person anymore.

Lisa Morgan 

Yes.

Philip King-Lowe 

Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Lisa Morgan 

Yes. There is definitely a grief that goes along with the diagnosis. If you're diagnosed with Autism later in life. There's all what you just explained, and there's also missed opportunities. There's, you know, people go back and think about conversations they had. If only you know I had known, then I could have done that differently. How would my life be right now, if I had known and could have, you know, just made my life around integrating Autism into it? And so, yeah, there's a lot of grief. I help, you know, I support Autistic people integrating Autism into their lives after a diagnosis, and sometimes they're in their 60s and 70s, and that's a lot of grief.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, especially since, you know, I'm in my mid 50s now, but when you get into your 60s like that, and even 40s or 50s, but there's so much of your life that you can't get back again, and then you, you go through this thing about, oh my gosh, you know, yeah, and, you know, go ahead.

Lisa Morgan 

And then again, I mean, I don't want to keep repeating this part, but again, these people are having a different experience than the people around them. Who are might be saying, You're not Autistic. They may have found out who they really are. They, you know, they're figuring it out, but they had, they got the diagnosis, and the people around them don't believe them, so they even support them in their grief over something that they don't believe. Again, it becomes disenfranchised.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah. You get people who are, you know, who are telling you things like that. You get the people saying, well, have you tried this? This treatment is supposed to be able to, “fix you,” you know, that sort of thing, you know. And no wonder at the very beginning we're kind of like, what? No way You know, you know. You question a lot of things after that period of time.

Lisa Morgan 

Yes, you know, or that finally, this makes sense. Finally, my life now makes sense. And no one will believe you still have the grief of everything that could have been or all those, right. But you know, it fits for you finally, and you're feeling a little bit okay about that. And then people that you love don't, just don't believe you. So.

Philip King-Lowe 

And especially if people are, you know, when you're Autistic, uh, characteristics show themselves, and people start saying, you know you're you just need to grow up there, mature there. You just didn't mature, right. All those sorts of things. Cruelty and bullying brings about grief, because there's a sense of things you believed about yourself that you're now being told, or some laughing matter, or, you know, that sort of thing, you know, and let's also just say something very important, again, as we're exploring this topic, to kind of bring the aspects of this around. Some of the problem for a lot of us is that grief is compounded from one incident after another, one routine after another. We don't exactly have control over routine changes, and they're just part of life, but we're trying to get caught up somewhere, and we keep losing it and losing this, losing that, losing this, you know, losing a relationship, losing your benefits, which is a horrible thing to happen to anybody, or your support services, or, you know, we've seen a lot of that sort of sort of thing happening. And, you know, those things, they all pile up. And before you know it, the grief is so much so intense. We have to really start unpacking some of that stuff. You know, it takes a long time to be, to be unpacking that sort of thing.

Lisa Morgan 

Yes, and when more things are happening while you're trying to unpack it, it's just it is very hard. It just is really hard. And even a special interest can if it's something you can't do anymore for any myriad of reasons. You know that also is a deep loss for some.

Philip King-Lowe 

You know, one of the things that's happened to me ever since my career had changed. For a long time, there I had gotten to a proficiency playing organ that I was really proud of. I had reached a point, and then after a while, that proficiency just wasn't what it was, and I just felt like I can't regain that. And sometimes with things, something like that, maybe you can't. Maybe it's just not, not possible. And you know, this is one of those things that I like to kind of say to some caregivers, if your Autistic loved one is feeling that loss, please don't force them or try to talk them back into something they may not be able to do. They may but they may not be, which may mean that they need to select a new direction for themselves, and that just that transition can be bring grief, and it can bring a lot of disenfranchisement. A lot of disenfranchisement. You know, a lot of the disenfranchisement comes from losing friends, losing their, you know, family members who just give up or just make life a lot little more difficult.

After this next commercial break, Lisa and I will talk about how Autistics can become engaged in our own self-care to manage our grief and get the supports we need.  We will also talk about using our Autistic strengths to empower us to look after ourselves.

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Segment 3

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Philip King-Lowe

A few weeks ago, something wonderful happened when Gus Walz cried while his father gave his acceptance speech.  Gus cried as did many of us Neurodivergents because Tim Walz honored his son as a human being who means more to him than some diagnosis.  Gus shared his emotion because he was accepted and loved by his father, with no expectations for Gus to be anyone else than who he is.  Gus’s joyful and proud cry is the happiness and pride that every Neurodivergent should know for themselves and that we are people of strength, courage and infinite possibilities.  Thank you, Gus, for being an example of the goodness of all Neurodivergent people for all of the world to witness.

Today’s Autistic Moment is the podcast where we celebrate being Neurodivergent and intersectional.  Today’s Autistic Moment’s network of Autistic advocates like Lisa Morgan enjoy sharing our experiences with you so that we all see that we don’t have to overcome being Autistic or any other intersectional identity. We can be who we are, love who we are and succeed.    

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Now join Lisa Morgan and I continue our conversation.

Philip King-Lowe 

How do we get our Autistic intersectional communities engaged in the self-care of their grief? This is where we want to give some recommendations as to how to manage it. And let me begin by saying some of the suggestions we may be giving here may not fit for you, and if they don't, that's okay. You know, if you know, if you find something that helps, fine, but if it doesn't, you haven't done anything wrong. That just doesn't work for you. But we're going to give some ideas as to how you can get engaged with your self-care and but I'm going to give you some time to answer, of course, Lisa. But I want to begin with my favorite. This is one of those things that I have said to many people who are grieving loss, and especially a lot of our Autistic and our intersectional communities. Never let anybody tell you someday you will get over this. Never, never say that. I would say that to someone who is not Autistic the same thing, I always say, Don't let anybody tell you that. Number one, it is extremely cruel. Number two, you don't know that.

Lisa Morgan 

Yes, that is very true. There is no time, no time limit on grief.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, and sometimes when grief is involved, I'm going to say you need to stay down as long as you need to. You get up when you feel ready, but if you don't feel like it's time yet, it's okay for you to stay down there for a while to kind of get a hold of yourself or just deal with but things you just don't understand. Okay, sometimes we need that time, but I'm gonna let you go ahead and pick up where I'm leaving off here at Lisa,

Lisa Morgan 

Sure. So, yeah, so sometimes you definitely need that time. You definitely need to feel whatever feelings that you have, or even if you don't know you're feeling them, but you just feel unmotivated. Yeah, definitely take care of yourself in that way. But there's also some Autistics who need to go to work or need to go out, because that is the way they can deal with the loss, and that's okay too. So, one of mine is to set boundaries for yourselves, instead of others dictating what you should or should, including a traditional funeral, you know, if you can go to part, if someone can go to part of it and somebody can't go to any of it all, or they don't understand it at all. You know I had heard of was a story given by a I don't know his age, young African American male whose father had died, and he just did not understand, why do I go to this place when my father's not there, like, why would I go to this place he's not there? he's going, he's dead. Yeah, he didn't understand, and he was getting pressured by the traditions. So set boundaries of what you know you can't or cannot do, as far as you know traditions or what people are expecting. And I'd also say too that taking care of yourselves by staying hydrated, eating healthy food, getting as much sleep as possible is really important in taking care of your body as well as you know, your emotions,

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, and you know, you need to find yourself some safe spaces where you can either deal with your emotions, or, you know, sometimes you're in a place where you're living with family that's really torn up, but you need some space to kind of be away from that for a while. That's okay too. Again, sometimes it's really difficult when, when people are grieving, because they're not completely rational at that point. And so sometimes they respond to rational things, like, I need some time to be alone. Sometimes they don't. So, my recommendation is that if you can't be if you're in a place where you can't necessarily go to your own space, and some you know, you might pick for yourself your favorite place to walk or sit on a bench and be kind of quiet for a while and just spend some time being alone with yourself. Or if you've got that group of people that really does support you, then go spend some time with those people you know, you know. And then there's a matter of being angry, which is so important of an emotion. If you folks want to talk about anger management, go back to my episode in late May with AJ Locashio about anger management, especially, you know, a lot of, lot of losses. I just really, really harm trauma, and that trauma also needs to be dealt with. The other thing that comes, that can come up, you know, if you, if you've got someone who's passed or someone or a relationship that's broken off and you haven't had an opportunity to, you know, get your emotions out about what this person has done. Or, you know, there's a lot of us who, after someone has passed or a relationship has broken up, that we realize how one may have been abused in that relationship. And boy, can that bring along a lot of grief.

Lisa Morgan 

That is true, that is true. Yeah, definitely,

Philip King-Lowe 

So, part of your self-care, part of your engagement, is just learning about where your grief may be coming from. And once again, don't let anybody tell you, get over it. And don't let somebody tell you these are things that you must experience, especially if you don't you know. You know, sometimes a good way to get your rank or out of your system might be to find a safe again, I emphasize safe space a way that you're not going to harm yourself or others. Just some people like to just break bottles, just make sure you they're in a place where, you know when it gets cut. But you know, sometimes it's just, it's just one of those things that we need a space that's ours to really experience our grief, or not experience our grief, especially if people are telling us how to, you know.

Lisa Morgan 

And that's the key, right? Is, is people telling us what we should feel, what we should do, is that's, that's not good for us. Setting those boundaries is, is not I would, you know, just speaking for myself, I guess. But I think a lot of Autistic people have really good sense of being able to stand up for themselves and set those boundaries, but, but they really are needed, especially to keep themselves on an even keel and to be able to grieve the way they need to grieve that's going to be so important.

Philip King-Lowe 

Another thing that I like to mention as part of your self-care is, when you're grieving losses, you need to find something, either it's one of your stims, or your hobbies or something, so that you get to be distracted from it for a while. You really do need that time when you're just thinking about something else. You know, it's important because your brain may need some space just to kind of process some of that. You know, and grief can go through many stages. Um, you know, if it's something that you want to remember that person by or, you know, get your emotions out, and you know that they're just not going to listen either open up your phone or chat or pad or paper or whatever you do, and just write out exactly how you feel. You know, just write it out and spit it out. A lot of us can actually write it better than we can say it. That's okay, too, finding ways to write it out, to say it.

Lisa Morgan 

Even moving, moving your body like you said, walking, moving around, sometimes even, you know, doing, doing something. I know somebody who had to go bowling because they enjoyed bowling. They enjoyed the sound. And it just, I think it just like you said, distracted them. But you know, unfortunately, you know, other people didn't think that they should be bowling because they should be grieving, and that's what they were doing, though. They weren't bowling. They were grieving.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, and absolutely, you know, and you know also, like, you know, if you're somebody who happens to work with clay, work with some clay, or whatever. Just find something that makes you feel connected. I mean, there are what I call rituals that you can do. Let's say, for example, you were really close to the person that's let's say died. Let me use death again as an option. Here's something that really can work. It depends on who you are, but here's one, a few things that can work. One, I actually did this after my mother passed away. That's a suggestion of a good therapist. My birthday, my first birthday without my mother, was two, three months after she passed. So, at the at the advice of my therapist, at the time, I went to a Walgreens, and I was in the aisle with the cards, and the instructions were to pick out a birthday card and read it and imagine that my mother had written that card and was saying those words to me and so I did that. I did I went, I went, I went and went and found, found a card. There was one card in particular that I started to read. And I said, this is exactly what my mother would want me to know now this and yes, the tears streamed down my face. I said, this sounds exactly what she would want me to know at this particular stage, you know. And sometimes, if it's somebody you've been married to, an anniversary card might work. You know, if you're somebody whom you and your romantic, loved one, maybe you were the types that sent, you know, cards to each other, whatever you can again, you can go to somewhere, get a card, again, thinking of you card, and maybe read it and say, Okay, this sounds like what this person would say to me. If that does not work for you, again, you don't have to. But again, these are some things that have worked for me and for others, you know, sometimes things like creating a little I call it a little shrine with some pictures of that individual, you know. Or if you already got one and it's just making you mad, go ahead and tear them apart and get rid of them, whichever way works for you. And if your emotions are constantly changing, that's not a bad thing. Okay, that's actually a natural thing. Our emotions are just so either they're happening or they're not, and once again, you can take as much time as you need or do what you need. Go ahead Lisa.

Lisa Morgan 

Yeah, one thing that worked for my family and I, after my husband died, was on Christmas, I just asked the kids what they wanted to do. And he always had gotten up Christmas morning and sat in a chair, his chair, and had coffee. So, they wanted to put coffee next to his chair, and we did put a hot cup of coffee next to his chair. And you know what? That's what they wanted to do, and that's what we did, and they felt good about it. And then on his birthday, we ate his favorite food and watched his favorite movies, and that's what they wanted to do. So, you know, whatever feels right or feels good, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, something that no one else has done before, it just helps the family or you or, you know, if you're supporting someone, it's just whatever helps. Asking is big, you know, ask the person what, what would help you right now?

Philip King-Lowe 

And now you've just talked about a topic that you are really, really, you know, you are an expert about talking about that. The grief that comes from somebody having taken their lives by suicide is a grief that I don't think there is a proper explanation for it, but it can definitely be a different kind of grief, you know. So please feel free to talk about that, because I think it's important

Lisa Morgan 

Sure, it's it is a grief that comes along with many, many other things. It's so complicated. You're angry at the person, and yet you tend to blame yourself because of what you may have been able to say to them, or did you say something wrong to them, especially if it may have happened after a disagreement or and it's unexpected, so it's traumatic, depending on how you find out, whether you find yourself or somebody tells you about it, things that are unsaid and you're left to pick up all those pieces. And there's always, always, always like, why? You know when you really find out why, and that complicates the whole grieving process, because you don't know if you should be angry or you should be sad, and you go, kind of go through all of those. And then, you know, you there's just the always wondering, like, what you could have said or done. And really, when it comes down to it, if somebody wants to take their life, they're going to, and it's, it's nothing that, I mean, always try, definitely, always try to save somebody's life, if possible, if you know the suicidal, but in the end, if they really want to, they're going to do it. And it's not your fault.

Philip King-Lowe 

Here's a part of self-care that I think we need to talk about, Lisa, one of the sources of a grief like that. It could be because of a suicide, it may not. May be because of an illness that it just happened so fast. There are those things that you that are unresolved between you and that individual right now. There are those things that you wish you had said, those things you those things you missed, you know, maybe you missed the opportunity to get say whatever it was. And boy, like I say that not only creates a lot of guilt, it creates a lot of you know, was it my fault? As you just mentioned. And let's talk about, please give some ideas about how people can take care of themselves in those situations.

Lisa Morgan 

Well, really, you know, understanding that it is, it is nobody's fault. It's really, I believe, not even the fault of the person who dies by suicide, because there are reasons compelling them, whether it be a mental illness or, you know, a traumatic event, something that they can't get over, and they are it's usually escaping something they're trying to get away from something. And it certainly isn't anybody's fault who is still living. Because if somebody really does want to die by suicide, there's really not a lot you can do to change their mind about that. But always try, but yeah, no, it I go back and forth, you know, could I have done something? Could I have said something for my husband? And it was a choice that he made.

Philip King-Lowe 

And I also want to just be sure we point out that being in a state of grief, especially if it's a career or just once again, you've lost your housing, which, again, the things about things like that is they repeat themselves quite a bit, and they can lead to suicidal ideation, because the grief of those losses is so tragic, you know.

Lisa Morgan 

And that is true. That is true because in the midst of, you know, losing my husband, I did lose my house, I lost my job. I lost there's many other losses that you are grieving, if that you know, if it's head of household, or if it's even, you know, your support person, you know just there could be so many other losses that coincide with that,

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, now I want to turn to the third part of my program, which is, how can we empower our intersectional Autistic Adult communities here? When we talk about our intersections, we are talking about races, cultures, sexual orientation, gender identity, expression and that sort of thing. We are talking a lot about that. We may be talking about the loss of one's health. Yes. When one's health changes and it's can't really be undone, there's a lot of grief to be said for that. When we talk about empowerment, where would you begin with that Lisa?

Lisa Morgan 

I would begin by just encouraging people to be who they know they are and do what they know they need, no matter what other people are telling them.

Philip King-Lowe 

The empowerment kind of comes from, by becoming the expert about your own brand making model of Autism. That's always an empowerment. It's difficult for you to be empowered by anything if you don't really know yourself, your how your Autistic. And of course, let's, let's talk about this. You talked a lot about using your Autistic strengths. Yes. In fact, I've been using that term a lot since you said it last year. But yeah, why don't we talk about the strengths? Because the strengths of Autism can really be part of the empowerment to do your self-care when you're grieving. Go ahead.

Lisa Morgan 

Well, I use one of mine a lot as being rule based. So, I know I tend to be rule based. So, I can make rules for say, you know, I need to stay hydrated. So, I have a, you know, a water ball with me at all times, and I drink so many ounces by lunch and so many ounces by dinner, and so many ounces before I go to, you know, just make sure I stay hydrated. And because I'm rule based; I use that strength. But there's also, you know, honesty, you know, that can go pretty far in helping yourself with the grieving process by being really honest with the people around you that I need to do this, or I don't need to go here, you know, and grieve in your own way, that I am not done grieving yet. I had somebody, after two months, tell me that I was just grieving for too long. I'm grieving almost 10 years. Is next year will be the 10th year, and I'm still grieving in ways. So no and being okay with that, you know, no matter what people are saying to me, just being okay with what I need and how I feel.

Philip King-Lowe 

One of the things that's really unavoidable I feel is that going through a grief process will change us in some way shape or form, okay? Um, you know, one of, one of the things about when I'm grieving a death, for example, I go through a pretty verbal year after, you know, I don't want to jinx myself for the next one, but, you know, that's when the washer machine breaks down. The car, gets at the tire on the car, gets a flat, or just there's so many different things that happened, that can happen to you, and it feels like it's just adding to you to your misery, grieving. I'm laughing at it, because I'm that's part of my stuff. But I'm laughing at it because it's a little comical. I say that because someone would say, you know, okay, the washing machine broke down, and that's one of those moments where the person that I've lost would be able to know what to do, and I just don't. So of course, that's gonna happen, you know, so I, that's why I kind of make a little bit of a comical out of it, you know, that sort of thing. And then, you know, you can, kind of, well, what? What can I do? I can't do what that person used to do when they used to fix these problems for me. What, what can I do to get this problem fixed?

Lisa Morgan 

Right. Right. And I have, I have, kind of a funny example putting an air conditioner in a window with two, you know, very early, early teens. Like, one of them wasn't even a teen yet. So, what we did was we got, we had plenty of books, so I put a book under each end of the air conditioner and kept putting books under and kept putting books under until it was level with the window. Yeah, did the air conditioner over? There's always a way to figure out how to do something if you need to do it and have to hire somebody where you wouldn't have before. And that can either be defeating, or it can be, you know, I did, I did that. You know, that was my resilience, is I knew that on this one, I had to hire somebody, and that's okay.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, and I know that can be hard, because oftentimes, after a loss like that, you can money is no friend. of ours. Sometimes you can decide you're going to challenge yourself to do something. You know, a few years ago, I had to go through some physical therapy after a fall. And there's another thing that can really bring about a grief, as if you've had a fall and it's changed your life a lot. But, you know, I went through a process with a physical therapist where they told me, okay, what we need to do is, is, is, help you. You're down on the floor. How are you going to get yourself back up? You know? And they told me, if you have to sit there and think through your steps about how you're going to do that. You need to give yourself permission for that. And I find a lot of the things that I need to do, including dealing with grief, dealing with an adrenaline you know, when you know we had a few two years ago, when our cat got sick, he needed to go to a vet. And the thing is, is that sometimes when it's just not working, life is just not working, taking some time to breathe some air. Number one, get some oxygen back in your body. And number two, think about the steps you need to take that will work for you to get to your next level.

Lisa Morgan 

I love how you said, give yourself permission. Giving yourself permission to take a day off to, you know, eat comfort food. To you know, have a day of self-pity. Sometimes I would have self-pity like for an hour. I'd time myself, okay, pity party for an hour, and then you got to get going, whatever works. And I also had, I would pick out words and put it on a whiteboard. My favorite one was resilience. And every time I go by that whiteboard, I remind myself, that's my word for today. So, you do have to kind of get through each day, sometimes, sometimes each morning or each afternoon, but taking one step at a time, and like you said, you plan, even planning your steps, yeah, giving yourself permission is an awesome that's an awesome idea.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. And, I mean, I'll give an example that it was that really was another point of grief for me is, you know, when my back pain became such that, I had to start asking my husband Jason, to do some things for me that I was used to doing for myself. Boy, can that bring on some grief when, when you start to lose some of your independence, that's a really hard one. And I can tell you that I just had to come to the realization there are just some things I can't do, like I used to do them. I really do need his help. And I know this is really complicated because of how many of us have asked people for help, and they've said no where they belittled us for having asked in the first place. But there are times when you just can't do what is being expected of you, or what you you're this is another one where a lot of us Autistics get really challenged is where we expect ourselves to do things we may not be able to do, and then we break down because we can't.

Lisa Morgan 

Yes, perfectionism piece too.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah, absolutely. So, part of giving ourselves that permission is to give ourselves permission for not being perfect. Yes. Especially if life is not perfect. Right now, I like to say that when you're grieving a loss, any kind of loss, no, life is not the same. And yes, it is very difficult to walk through. So don't part of giving yourself permission is to, is to, is to allow, give yourself permission to feel what you're feeling, and to go through that process of this is really difficult for me, and I don't know how to get past it. And sometimes it's just a matter of time. For me, actually having to apply to get home services, that was a that was a bit of a grief for me, when I finally realized my executive functioning is such that there are things I just simply cannot do the way they need to be done. I need help to get them done. So I went through the process, and I've gotten some people to help me, and it's really improved my life. But making that transition to that point, it was really, really, really hard for me.

Lisa Morgan 

And what you're talking about is what I call, and lots of people call the new normal, and that's difficult for Autistic people, because we like routine, and we like to know what's going to happen, and we you know, so that new normal can be so difficult. And caught it for a long time. Yeah. Same time. I had people expecting me, and you brought this up a little bit ago, expecting me to be the same person I was on June 23, 2015, and I was not the same person. June 24, of 2015.

After this final commercial break, I will thank Lisa for this superb conversation followed by Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board.

Commercial Break III

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♫ Lisa Morgan Ad. ♫

Future Shows

♫ Background Music as I announce the shows coming up ♫

On September 22nd, Nicole LeBlanc will be my guest for Autistics Living Among Unsupportive People.  Inadequate housing for Autistics often results in living with people who do not support them. Many Autistics live with family, or roommates, or have property managers who are not helpful in meeting their Autistic needs.  Nicole LeBlanc joins me to talk about how Autistics can manage their support needs in such environments.

On October 4th, Kathryn Parsons will be my guest for Autistics Using AI.  Artificial Intelligence is the latest and hottest internet tool. Every social media platform or software used for writing documents, collecting information and searching is more accessible than ever because of AI.  Like any internet program, what is put into AI is what comes from it. Kathryn Parsons joins me to talk about the good and the bad for Autistics using AI.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 4

♫ Segment Beginning Music ♫

Philip King-Lowe 

Well, Lisa, I am always grateful when we have our opportunities to talk together. There's some wonderful things together, some wonderful points. And I want to kind of close by saying that whatever grief you are experiencing, let that grief, however you work through it, use it to strengthen you not weaken or set you back. It may take a while before you get past some of those initial stages. But I've often found that some of my personally, my greatest moments of rediscovering myself and rediscovering just how strong of a person I am. What do you say to that one Lisa?

Lisa Morgan 

Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Philip King-Lowe 

In due time you do, you discover something that you're gaining there.

Lisa Morgan 

Whether it's yeah, a piece of yourself that you didn't know about yes, some yeah.

Philip King-Lowe 

And again, we want to acknowledge that that experience will be different for everybody, and that's okay, you know wherever you are on your journey is where you are. But Lisa, thank you so much for being here today. And I love what when we get together and talk and we bring to many Autistics who may not maybe looking for some answers, some things to think about and go from there. So.

Lisa Morgan 

Thank you very much for inviting me. I always enjoy talking with you, too.

Philip King-Lowe 

Yeah. Thanks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All of these events and many others with their links can be found at todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard.

The AuSM Coffee Club is a space where Autistic and Neurodivergent Adults can connect with each other, foster friendships, and build community while enjoying a favorite beverage or snack. While it is free to participate in AuSM Coffee Club, we ask that participants purchase something from our venue.  AuSM Coffee Club meetings will be on September 10th, October 8th, November 12th, and December 3rd at Dogwood Coffee, located at 2700 University Ave, W. St. Paul, Minnesota, Zip Code is 55114.

Understanding Autism virtual classes are offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. These classes are perfect for Autistic individuals, caregivers, those who want to understand the basics of Autism and support Autistic people. Classes will be on September 9th at 2pm. November 11th at 10am. December 9th at 6pm. Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

Are you a professional who works with Autistic people? Such as a therapist, psychologist, occupational therapist, psychiatrist, social worker, case manager, or health care provider?  Join the AuSM Professional Networking Group to work with The Autism Society of Minnesota’s Counseling and Consultation team that offers a resource to help you network with other professionals.  Group sessions are held monthly. See AuSM’s Event Calendar for more information.

Go to ausm.org to get more information about these and other Social and Recreational Programs, educational events, counseling services and support groups at The Autism Society of Minnesota.

MNeurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing Neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections.  Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect regardless of ability or preferences. Go to the bulletin board at todaysautisticmoment.com and click on the Meet Up link to become a member and attend their events.

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Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

 May you have an Autistically Amazing day.

♫ ♫ Closing Background Music with credits ♫

All of the guests meet with me on Zoom to record the interviews. The interview transcripts are provided by Otter. The podcast is prepared and edited on WavePad Masters Edition by NCH Software.  The podcast is published by Spotify for Podcasters.  The Music that you hear is licensed to Today’s Autistic Moment by premiumbeat.com.