Autistic Adults: Media Portrayal or Betrayal.

Autistic Adults: Media Portrayal or Betrayal?

July 19, 2021

[You will notice that some words have a strike through font.  These are to reflect the new website created in September 2022] 

Welcome everyone to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult. My name is Philip King-Lowe, the owner, producer, and host; and I am an Autistic Adult.  Thank you so very much for listening.

Today’s Autistic Moment is always a free to listen to podcast that gives Autistic Adults access to important information, learns about our barriers, and helps us discover the tools and strengths we need for self-advocacy. 

This first segment of Today’s Autistic Moment is sponsored by The Autism Society of Minnesota: Minnesota’s First Autism Resource.  The Autism Society of Minnesota has been serving Minnesota’s Autism Community for the past 50 Years. Visit them online at ausm.org.

Some listeners have said that they cannot find the transcripts.  The link to listen to each episode is created by the Anchor podcast creator.  To get to the Program Scripts and Interview Transcripts go to either the New Podcast Episodes page or the Episode Index page on todaysautisticmoment.com and then click the hamburger menu.  Scroll down to the episode you want to listen to. Under the title of each episode, is the link to listen, below that is the link for the Program Script that has these announcements that I am making now on them, the script for the future shows and Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board.  The link just below is the Interview Transcript that has my conversation with my guests in print. Click or tap to open the scripts.  The Interview Transcripts are sponsored by GT Independence.  If you have difficulty finding anything, please send an email to PKLowe@todaysautisticmoment.com. todaysautisticmoment@gmail.com 

Today’s Autistic Moment is a member of the National Podcast Association that is also called the NPA. The NPA just started this year and includes over 1,000 different podcasts with their owners among their members.  On July 11^th, the National Podcast Association held their very first Podcastathon.  It was a two-hour program that featured a 15-minute clip from eight different podcasts.  A 15-minute clip of Today’s Autistic Moment’s episode Autistic Adults: Our Diverse Gender Identities with Enzi Tanner was among the eight clips that was selected to be heard on their show.  I was so excited and honored that a clip from this podcast about Autistic Adults was heard by the many members of the National Podcast Association.  I want to say a public thank you to the National Podcast Association, Enzi Tanner and especially you, my listeners for helping to make it possible.  Today’s Autistic Moment is having a great impact.

On Tuesday, August 10^th at 7:00pm central standard time, you are welcome to join me and Samuel J. Levine in a special live virtual event Autistic Adults & Employment.  This exciting special live virtual event is sponsored by Minnesota Independence College and Community.  Tickets are now on sale through todaysautisticmoment.com/lve/.  There is only one more free ticket left.  To get the last free ticket, register for the event through the link provided on the Live Virtual Events page on todaysautisticmoment.com, and click on the purple-colored link at the bottom of the page.  When you purchase a ticket, click on the drop-down menu, and select First5.   General admission is just $10.00 a person.  If you want to get a $5.00 discount, go to the Subscriptions & Bonuses page to become a Podcast Planning Partner for only $15.00 a month.  If you want to attend this and other events for free, join the Podcast Planners Plus Free Pass subscription for as little as $25.00 a month.  After I receive the confirmation of your subscription, I will email you the promocode for the discount your subscription gives you.

The tickets are on a first come, first served basis and you only have until August 5^th to purchase your tickets.  So, get your tickets now while they last.  You can also take advantage of other bonuses like newly published episodes, the Monthly Moments Newsletter sent to you by email, a free ballpoint pen and stylus, and become part of the planning for the future of Today’s Autistic Moment by participating in other subscription offers.  The first Podcast Planning Partner’s Live Meeting will be on Thursday, July 22^nd at 7:00pm central standard time. Subscribe now to receive a VIP invitation to participate. Listening to Today’s Autistic Moment is free and always will be.  These subscriptions are to help build up the Adult Autistic community for Today’s Autistic Moment and make the podcast get even better than it is. 

Emerson Malone wrote an amazing article on Buzzfeednews.com entitled: How Autistic People Are Showing the Limitations of Person-First Language. You can find the link to this exceptional article on my Adult Autism Resources Links page on todaysautisticmoment.com.  Emerson interviewed Lydia X. Z. Brown.  Brown was quoted as saying,

 “Person-first language actually had revolutionary origins. Unfortunately, that has become lost in most modern discourse, because the people who most loudly advocate for the use of person-first language are not disabled at all.”

Later in the article, Emerson uses the following quote from Emma Brown who is the co-chair of the University of Bradford in the UK.

“Autistic is something that I am. I have an Autistic brain, and everything I experience I do so through an Autistic (and ADHD) lens.  I don’t see it as inherently negative. It is a neurology, and nothing to be ashamed of...” 

I am sharing this with my listeners as part of my explanation of why I use identity first language.  Since I began hosting Today’s Autistic Moment, I have heard many Autistics saying openly that many of us have had it with non-autistic people deciding for us who we are, should be and/or how we ought to be to be fitted into the world to win the approval of the neurotypical majority.  These attitudes are driven by an ableist culture.  If you listen to the episode Autistic Adults and Living Independently, Dan Carmichael from GT Independence said that “what needs to change is what people view as normal.”  On the episode Autistic Adults and Autism Acceptance, Ellie Wilson said that there is a therapist at The Autism Society of Minnesota who is fond of saying that “Normal is a setting on a washing machine.  Normal does not apply to people.”  I am one of many Autistics who see ourselves as neurodivergent.  We do think, talk, act, and process things very differently from how the neurotypical majority does.  Many Autistics such as I have gone through a process to accept being unique as one of our greatest strengths as individuals with a personality and not limited to a diagnostic pathology that dehumanizes us.

Regardless of what group of people you are from that has a history of being “othered,” the media plays a powerful role in that it reflects what society looks like.  The media is well known for getting everyone’s attention by whatever sensations they create.  Autistic people are one group of people that are portrayed and betrayed by the media.  The entertainment and news media continues to use the harmful functioning labels thinking that they are doing Autistics a favor.  Many continue to say that Asperger’s is high functioning and therefore it is “mild” and not as “severe” as the Autistics with higher support needs who use augmentative and alternative communication devices.   While the show Atypical on Netflix puts a face, name and a productive character on an Autistic guy named Sam; it also betrays Autistics with stereotypes that suggest that all Autistics are probably like Sam.  Stereotypes like these suggested by similar shows can cast dark shadows on neurodiversity.  In other media portrayals, Autistic people are betrayed when the Autistic character is prone to criminal and violent behavior, lazy, abusive, and unable to appreciate the consequences of our actions further stigmatizes all Autistic people.  Among the reasons this happens is because Autistics or often characterized in the media by neurotypical people, neurotypical values and what is defined as normal by ableism and the neurotypical majority.  These are only a few examples of how many Autistic Adults feel when the media attempts to portray us.  Many Autistic Adults feel that the media betrays us. 

My guest to talk about this important topic is Nicola Whiting.  Nicola is the co-owner of Titania Group, she is also Autistic, an Amazon best-selling author and is listed as one of the top 20 most influential women working in cyber security.  Nicola received the United Kingdom’s inaugural “National Cyber Citizen Award” for her “outstanding contribution to the world of cyber security and protectional and awarded an MBE by the Queen for services to International Trade and Diversity.”  Nicola joins me today to talk about this important and sensitive topic Autistic Adults: Media Portrayal or Betrayal?

After this first commercial break I will begin my conversation with Nicola Whiting.  Stay tuned. 

Commercial Break I

Philip King-Lowe  
Nicola, welcome. And thank you for talking with me on this episode of Today's Autistic Moment. 

Nicola Whiting
My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. 

Philip King-Lowe
You're welcome.  Today, we want to talk about the ways that Autistic Adults are portrayed or betrayed by the media. Autistics like most people who are considered as "those people" get portrayed in movies such as What's Eating Gilbert Grape. There are television series, like Atypical and Autism Love. And more recently, the play named Music programs such as these bring a mixture of responses from Autistic Adults. On this episode, you and I are going to talk about what those responses are, and perhaps why. So let me begin with my first question, What important information to Autistic Adults in our caregivers need to know about in terms of how we are depicted in the media?

Nicola Whiting
So I think one of one of the challenges is that the Autism movement and the Autistic movement are two different sets of people. And the Autistic movement, obviously, is Autistic people. And we come in a wide variety of flavors. And so sometimes those representations may actually be close to some of us, and other representations don't represent us at all. And the challenge, I suppose, with any representation is you examine it against yourself and go "Is this me?"  And, and that's kind of natural. The other challenge is that because the Autistic Movement is fairly early on in its curve, and I say it that because if you compare us to say, the LGBTQI+ community, they share much further along in their curve. And a lot of their stereotypes are no longer portrayed in that way in the media. But if you kind of go back to say, you know, The Bird Cage and early things so that you know, that their their portrayals were a lot more stereotyped when I was in my teens, then. So I think, this curve to go through in how Autistic people are portrayed that we can do. 

Philip King-Lowe
Yeah. And it's, it's really not able to be missed that most Autistics that are portrayed in the media are children, not adults. At least that's how it is in the US. Um, it's, it's, it's almost never that you really see a story about an Autistic Adult. And so, and that's one of those things that sometimes it seems like, the media still thinks like, some that Autistic Adults must not exist. You know, you know, and so, um, I think one of the one of the pieces of information that we need to say is that Autistic Adults really don't exactly have a place in the media completely yet. 

Nicola Whiting
I may disagree with you, if you think so, there's two ways of looking at  Autistic Adults. So there is a way of looking at an Autistic Adult playing an Autistic, which I would say very poorly represented and then you've got Autistic Adults just playing human beings in their infinite variety. Somebody like Anthony Hopkins, for example. Yeah, the other Autistic Actors and other neurodivergent actors and actresses. Whichever you can use that language on that now. So I think that the challenges that the media always stereotype, it doesn't matter what they're portraying, everything tends to be a stereotype. Whether it's a superhero, whether it's a woman, whether it's, you know, every community tends to be stereotyped in films and media portrayals because they're looking for archetypes. And it's very rare that any film represents a nuanced character. Well, I do think that they do it particularly badly with Autistic Adults, and they do tend to the worst parts of stereotyping and then emphasize them.

Philip King-Lowe
Yes, because that's been one of the responses, for example, to Atypical, which, you know, is a story about an American youth who's finishing up his high school days and going into college. And there are several stereotypes in there that are difficult. For many Autistic Adults, as I've heard it said that, you know, we're almost stereotyped as people who get set up, which is not entirely untrue. But you know, um, you know, there's, there's just some things in there that many Autistic Adults have have suggested.
You know, and I think the responses of that, and even of some others, like, especially the play Music lately, has been that, you know, they portray Autistic individuals, but they don't really consult Autistics. Before they, they, they create whatever they create. And for many Autistics, I've heard that that has been a particular sore spot. 

Nicola Whiting
I would completely agree with that. And I think where I would agree with that, Philip is that, so I'm a big proponent of "Nothing about us, without us," not only for neurodivergent people, but any, any person. So if you want a successful company, you involve your employees, for example, in decisions about them, irrespective of their neuro type. If you want to represent any set of people, well, you should consult them so that you're creating the right character. The challenge is, sometimes when actors have gone to create Autistic characters, what they've done is they've gone to, say, a place where there are people with very high support needs, and they've based their character on that, but then they've put that character in a situation that somebody with very high support needs might not be in.  It's really challenging, but I think what I would say is it stems back, so we kind of look at why do the media portray things well, and it's almost like looking at people falling down stairs, I think we need to take a step back from that and go, Why are the people falling down stairs, you know, oh, they're slippery ice in the top, what's that slippery ice look like? And in my opinion, the slippery ice looks like that. All of our language, all of how Autistic people are portrayed is from a language of lack that comes from the medical community, and sometimes the Autism community, rather than the Autistic community. So that language of lack, which, you know, if you look at the average charity, that's an all that raises money for Autistic people, on the basis of empowering Autistic people and supporting Autistic people. Most of the boards aren't Autistic people, and they have 10% representation. So when you look at that the charities and the medical community are putting the language that controls our society, into society. And the media is a representation of society, a caricature of society. And so if we don't address our representation at those points, we're always going to have people in the media falling down the stairs effectively and creating poor models. So I think to kind of step back. We can't Fix it unless we either control our own destiny and make our own movies, or start changing the model that the movie makers are basing these things on. 

Philip King-Lowe
Right.  So, yes. All right.

Philip King-Lowe  
Well, I'm gonna launch into my second question. But what are the barriers for Autistic Adults, when it of all ages when it comes to our representation in the media, and here's where I'm gonna say, this is not just a portrayal, but actually a betrayal here. One of the matters that I am particularly concerned about is that here in the US, as you know, we've got a real problem with gun violence here. And what has happened is, after some major mass shooting, episodes, here that the news media will be rather quick to send the news that it was done by an Autistic person who simply went bananas, as we say.  And my concern is that that tends to stereotype Autistic people, or even people with Autism if we want to want to be fair there as potentially violence. And I have a very big problem with that, because then, when we're portrayed as violent, and then there's this, it creates fear for Autistic people, and, and and further stereotypes our social challenges.

Nicola Whiting 
Yeah, and I would agree with with everything you've said, and I think that is othering is really common in the media. Because the media want to sell eyeballs. Effectively sell, eyeballs. And it doesn't matter whether it's Autism, or othering, whether it's black people that they're othering, whether it's LGBTQI+ people. Exactly. Or whatever, it's about othering isn't necessarily about Autism. So it's, it's one of those things that is so natural in the media,that you don't feel it, unless you're part of the group that there are othering at that particular time. Exactly.  Actually, I think in some ways, the fact that we feel othered, as Autistic people, I, I find that many Autistic people have a real empathy, which is another myth that I'd like to dispel empathy towards other groups that are othered. Yes, you know, I know that there are, I think, a disproportionate number of people that actually are of alternative sexualities and genders in the neurodivergent community, because we don't have so challenges of being different. You know, we, we are naturally different in how we think. And so all of our differences tend to be more accepted. I feel, you know, I've not really ever personally encountered more acceptance than in the neurodivergent community of other people that are in communities that are marginalized, for example. Yeah. And maybe it's a bigger thing than, than just about us. And I think that's the thing that actually, I don't think us kind of shouting about it or railing about it is gonna hugely make a difference. I think it's a legislative thing. I think that is going to be harder in America than it say would be in the UK because of the freedom of speech and amendments and how tied in they are with your culture, and in many ways, rightly so. But that then has a flip side that costs people and I'm one of those people that are just like, well, why can't people just be positive and kind? And unfortunately, the reason is that the media isn't set up that way. They want eyeballs on pages and screens. Yeah. Okay. I'm less concerned about what's happening when it then impacts people in sentencing. And the bias in things like that, you know, like, when people don't have things taken into account there or when people as has been happening recently claimed claim that Autism somehow gives you a free pass. And that that isn't, you know that there's all kinds of people that are othered that can still have and do terrible things. 

Commercial Break II

Philip King-Lowe 
Well, a few episodes ago, I interviewed Samuel J. Levine, who is a he is a lawyer, a law professor, but is a very strong advocate for disability rights, especially for Autistics. And he is of the feeling that the written law can only change so much, because there's always a way to get around the written law.  And so his, his thinking is that we, we change the mindset of people about what being Autistic means. You know, it's this goes into the question of advocacy, which is always my last question that you know, What important steps do Autistic Adults in our supporters need to take to advocate for our needs?  And I think one of those, one of those things we need to do is, is to change the mindsets of people in our everyday relationships, as challenging as those relationships are. But in terms of the media, we know that the media is not going to do the changing for us. 

Nicola Whiting
No. The media is only a reflection of society.

Philip King-Lowe  
And a limited, limited view of society, because they've only got so much time to portray or betray whomever they're. They're there. They're covering. So the advocacy
is, how do we advocate? I mean, we have seen, for example, with that movie musical, or Music that rather that some people tried to call it to the attention of the actors, one of the actresses who really portrayed Autistic people in a way that really did disturb many, and the response was, so you know, rude to say it politely. But you know, it was so rude that that again, many Autistics felt like they were the losers. 

Nicola Whiting
I'd want to reframe that because I know that it's very easy to focus on things like that. But if you actually look at what happened to Music, so there was a lot of outrage. The outrage was picked up by the media and generally, although they then as part of that coverage, often rolled out the old stereotypical tropes. It was covered as this is not right. And the Autistic community are quite rightly calling out that these are some things  that have happened. What then happened is Music actually got awarded in the Razzes. Because people kind of realized that it was actually not representing us well, and all of the other stuff that happened to, and you know that, that I would call a win. I know it was a hard win. And I know that it cost a lot of people energy and emotional spoons, but actually that I would count as a winner, because a lot of people realized, even if they didn't win, and when I watched it, that it wasn't representative, and it hadn't been in consultation with the Autistic community and the Autistic community, were saying that this is stereotyping us, and also has things in it that could physically cause us harm, and should not be represented on screen that, as far as I'm aware, were removed from the movie, you know, like full body restraint. So I would say that actually that Music is a great example of our power when we get together and speak with one voice.

Philip King-Lowe 
You know, recently, I've been thinking about, you know, how some of us are portrayed in the media, and then the responses that comes. I think the Autistic community, adults, and children alike and parents of Autistic, excuse me children, is that we are going to have to accept our struggle and be allowed to struggle within the diversity within the Autistic community. Because a lot of us are struggling with terms, words, that and and they are difficult, because, you know, in the United States, for example,
part of the problem is that the DSM-5 made those changes from saying Asperger's versus pervasive developmental disorder. And then they said that no, everybody is on the Autism Spectrum.  And then the other matter that we have really tried to move on.  And one that I do support, of course, is getting away from the functioning labels because of how harmful those functioning labels can be. But the thing is, there is a diversity within the Autistic community, that includes those who are still in a different place. And I think that it's important to note that communities of diversity, do struggle with the diversity within its own community. And I think it's important to allow us to struggle with that, to allow ourselves to get to a place of, of accepting one another because we've all been engaged in that struggle. And I think that's some of the hardest part of the media, and how we're often portrayed in the media. It may not give us I say, may not because there's no absolutes in this business. But I think part of it is that it shows one, they tend to show one side of us. And then the harder part about advocating is allowing us to struggle with that diversity. And so I'm, I'm interested in your thoughts about that.

Nicola Whiting  
So, so there are two sets of thoughts. So the first set of thought kind of goes back again to who controls our language, right, I came to my diagnosis later in life. And therefore the first language that I encountered was language created by non Autistic people, because exactly which, so that you get the identity, then you find your first set of language, which is often non Autistic generated language.  And then you become part of the Autistic community. And then often people then change their language. I did. And sometimes they don't, because they've taken ownership of the first set of language that they got, which is often given to them by parents and medical community people. So some of the challenges within our community are actually created by the fact that we didn't own our language in the first place. Right. The other thing is that adds a little bit of a layer of complexity to some of those challenges is that many Autistic people and again, I'm one of them are hyperlexik and they're very word centered because they
bit like, if you're in a wheelchair, you get upper body strength, the areas of challenge that we often have are things like recognizing facial expressions or other things that that struggle areas for us. And so we lean into the language, which means that we cherish the language and we own the language. And we get very, very fierce about the language. And it means that it's sometimes hard for us to, to allow other people to use different language because we, we fiercely get attached to it. And so, so we kind of need to go through that growing process. I agree with you there, Philip. But I think we also need to talk more amongst ourselves and acknowledge that there are reasons that this is happening, particularly in the Autistic community, that the less problematic in other communities. But every community that is more is further along this, this path has had similar challenges with their languages, like the LGBTQI+ started out with less letters. And now it's got an A in it for allies as well, you know, this is this is an evolving thing.  And the great thing is, if you look back at that community, you know, when I was born in 1971, it was only a few years earlier that the Stonewall thing had happened. And they were saying we shouldn't be in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, because actually, odd sexuality is another normal human variant. It's just not that typical, or the majority human variant. And so, you know, maybe that is our ultimate thing that we will be accepted as a human variant, and not have this language enforced on us. So right, that maybe is the ultimate area. And then the areas that we need more support on. And I'm, I'm a big advocate for removing functioning labels, because they don't help. And a lot of the Autism community struggle with that, because they use the functioning labels as a way of getting help for themselves. So what we need to do is not remove them, but replace them with support labels, because people take mental shortcuts, they use labels, that's the way brains work. So if we talk about support labels, I could have high support needs one day, I could have low support needs, the other other people are constantly in a much higher support needs place. But what I'd want to do is expand that support need conversation to those people that surround us because families need support. Our educators needs support, our employers need support, and our whole network needs support, to move humanity into a place that we can be accepted as a variant. 

Philip King=Lowe
Alright. My last question actually is something again that Samuel Levine said that I considered him to him to be amazingly brilliant. And this will be my last question I asked you about, but one of the points that he brought up that I thought was brilliant, is that part of the problem of portraying Autistics in the media? Is that to use his example, is that in just about every media setting, you have the individual who's a little bit narcissistic, a little bit funny. You have the individual who's larger or smaller, you have another individual who may or may have a criminal mind, or just somebody who's just plain old, you know, goofy. And so his argument is that, why can't we just portray Autistics as just another different individual in the group rather than making us particular? Like, the center of everything?  And he believes that's part of changing the mindset. Because Autistics are a normal in and of ourselves, as we know, but we're not seen as normal. But I think his point is that if we can get the media to just, we're just one among many different people, rather than being this sole point of focus, that that might help in some ways, that again, that's his thinking, and I invite you to, to give your thoughts on that.

Nicola Whiting
Yeah, I suppose. The answer to that one, to be honest, I think I'd need like, that's not something particularly thought about. I suppose the tendency for for characters to become centralized may be how interesting we are, in terms of, you know, again, people want ratings when they're making series is and shows and nuances of humanity are what make things interesting for ratings.  And then when you look at, and, you know, let's say the Big Bang Theory when nobody's ever said Sheldon Cooper is Autistic. But when you look at the sort of portrayal of that character, you kind of go, well, let's say he was or not, doesn't really matter. It's the the strangeness compared to the typical behavior, when anything highlighted that make him a very central character. And then you look at The Good Doctor and other things where they they're kind of stereotyping, but it's because there's that interest in that character, and what are they going to do about that? What are they going to do about that? So they're kind of exploring live all of those things. And it's not that different, again, to say the early portrayals of gay people within a group, where there was always one really sort of fancy, flamboyant person that didn't really relate to many people in the community. And, and I think we're just on that curve again. But we're early in the curve. If you look at, say, for example, portrayals of ethnicity in the 70s, and 80s. You'd look at them now and go, "Oh, that's cringe worthy, that's so stereotypical and awful, and doesn't relate to people as people." And but now, they're part of that very group that you're talking about. They're just one of the five people are central to the character. They're like, you'd have friends, but it's much more diverse now. Right. But we're not there yet with neurodivergence, because the major hub there already know what they're doing, because the language is still controlled by neurotypical people who tend to stereotype. Right. They're looking from the outside and just looking at traits and trying to box them. So I really do genuinely think that a lot of this may go away, as we start to have our allies not take our platform, but to make our platform. Yes. And I think that's the thing that needs to happen. Like it happened with women in technology. And like it happened with the LGBTQI+ community and Black Lives Matter when our allies make our platform rather than take the platform, that's when the start of language change really, really accelerates. That's when we get start to be portrayed more accurately, in all variety, as one of many. And you know, that's really the the way that this will happen. Either that or like I sometimes say, Star Trek will happen. An alien race will invade the earth and suddenly humanity in all its variety is okay, because they're the other. But you know, unless that happens, I think we're gonna have to go it the old fashioned way, and take control language and how we portray ourselves. 

Philip King-Lowe
That's right.

Commercial Break III

Future Shows

On August 9^th, you do not want to miss listening to the episode Autistic Adults and Gaslighting.  Gaslighting is a form of manipulation and abuse concentrated on making someone doubt reality.  It can include lies and constant coverups, broken promises and erodes one’s sense of what is real.  Lyric Holmans, the Neurodivergent Rebel joins me to talk about what gaslighting is, with some advice on how to recognize it and protect ourselves from abusers. 

On August 23^rd, Zephyr James will be my guest to talk about Autistic Adults and Interdependence.  Interdependence is best understood as depending on each other in seeking health relationships, connected communities, building strong families, and understanding the connection of independence with interdependence.  Zephyr James is the Community Engagement Manager at the Autism Society of Minnesota who is leading this project.  You will not want to miss this episode.

There are some great shows coming up in the Fall about subjects like Dating, Romantic Relationships and Sexuality.  Let’s Talk About Consent. Socializing with other Autistics and Preparing for Holidays that are not so sensory friendly. 

I would love your help to prepare for these and other shows.  Become a Podcast Planning Partner or a Podcast Planner Plus Free Pass subscriber and you can join me and other Autistics on July 22^nd and August 19^th to suggest topics and questions you would like me to ask my guests.  Go to todaysautisticmoment.com/subscribe/.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

Philip King-Lowe  
Well, Nicola, I want to thank you very much for being on this episode today. Boy, we've had some interesting conversations. And I always say that we're not solving problems today. We're talking about them. And to me, talking about them as one of the ways that we begin to change things, hopefully, of course. So thank you very much for being on today. 

Nicola Whiting
Thank you so much for inviting me and for having such fantastic questions that really allowed us to explore some some of the more challenging things that we need to move past in our community. But thank you. 

Philip King-Lowe
You're welcome. Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai 

Today’s Autistic Community Bulleting Board

Minnesota Independence College and Community is having a virtual Open House on Thursday, July 29^th at 7:00pm central standard time.  Go to miccommunity.org to register. 

Minnesota Independence College and Community invites you to join them for MICC’s IndePENNdence 5K race on September 19^th in Donaldson Park in Richfield, Minnesota. 

The Autism Society of Minnesota invites you to reach out to your golfing friends and golf clubs to participate in the 26^th Annual AuSM Golf Classic at The Royal Club on Monday, August 2^nd, 2021, beginning at 12pm at The Royal Golf Club on 11455 20^th Street North in Lake Elmo, MN 55042. Sponsorships are available. Go to ausm.org to register.

Please follow Today’s Autistic Moment on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. 

Please send an email with comments and questions to PKLowe@todaysautisticmoment.com.  todaysautisticmoment@gmail.com 

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.