Transcript

Self-Care: Sexual Abuse Prevention

August 18th, 2024

Episode Preview

Among the many stigmas that Autistic Adults live through is that we do not know our own bodies, needs, or how to keep ourselves safe. Autistics definitely have our strengths to prevent sexual abuse. On this episode of Today’s Autistic Moment, we are going to hear from AJ Locashio who is an Autistic Certified Sexologist. AJ will explain what sexual abuse is and talk about the ways that Autistics can take care of ourselves to prevent sexual abuse including consent and intimacy boundaries with some ideas for Autistic led initiatives to meet the needs of Neurodivergents.

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Segment 1

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Stay with us after this first commercial break as AJ Locashio and I will talk about Self-Care: Sexual Abuse Prevention.

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Commercial Break I

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Segment 2

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Philip King-Lowe

AJ Locashio, welcome back to Today's Autistic Moment. It is always a pleasure to have you here. When we have you on the show, we talk about some very interesting and timely topic. So welcome back.

AJ Locashio

Thank you so much. I love being here, and I'm so grateful that you talk about the things that you do, because it's so important in our community. And what we're talking about today is, you know, a passion of mine and what I've spent my life getting to know. So, thank you for inviting me to talk about it.

Philip King-Lowe

You're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah, well, I have sat in my share of breakout sessions, and I have read enough blogs about sexual abuse among Autistics that always seems to kind of bring the vulnerability of Autistics to the surface, suggesting that we don't really have the ability to prevent sexual abuse on our own without some sexual expert who is not even aware of our understanding of Autistics. And so, I think it's definitely time for us to have a conversation about preventing sexual abuse from the perspective that Autistics already have those tools to do that. Sometimes we just need some help to understand that we have those tools and maybe how to use them. So, you know, I want to say that we're approaching this from the point that Autistic Adults are not helpless with these things. We are not unintelligent about these things. And so today we're going to talk about sexual abuse prevention from the standpoint that Autistics can do this kind of thing, and we can be, in fact, successful and effective. So, AJ, where can we begin to explore this topic of preventing sexual abuse for Autistic Adults?

AJ Locashio

Well, I mean, you said it right that people think that we are naive and that we don't know our own wants, needs, desires. And I think what we need to do for ourselves, individually and as a community as a whole, is we need to let go of that almost internal bias that we get because so many people have said it, and that makes us question ourselves when we want something that seems maybe like outside of what society says is normal. And instead of saying that's bad, I don't want that, and kind of retreating away from that or feeling shame, we need to start having conversations about it and be being honest about it. And again, that's why I love being here to talk about it, because you and I have talked a little bit before about BDSM, and I'm just going to jump right into that and say, because of our profile, as far as sensory goes, for many of us, we have very specific wants, needs and desires for how we are touched. Oftentimes that doesn't match what society says is okay, and that is honestly how I got into this field to begin with, because when I was very young, I didn't understand at first why I preferred really tight hugs or squeezes and why I really didn't like it my nervous system went crazy with, I have to get away from this. And it just it didn't understand itself, and it was very disorganized when somebody touched me really lightly or gently. So, to me, a bad, bad touch was a touch that was gentle, and a good touch was a touch that was hard and firm. So, because of what other people said was normal and okay, I didn't feel love until I felt that really hard touch. Now, if we don't have conversations about this, then what happens is I don't feel love until maybe I am in an abusive situation, because it's my sensory system that is telling me and controlling my emotions at that time, and then I may end up in that kind of situation, because there are certain types of touch that feel good. And I'm not saying that being hit in a way that is meant to be harmful feels good. That never feels good to anybody. But if your sensory system tells you that that's safer because it doesn't run away from that like it does a gentle touch, and we're not talking about it because we can't talk about it in schools, and everybody says that it's wrong, then we may get ourselves into a situation where we need a little bit of support to understand that full situation. And you know, honestly, that's not only Autistic folks. It's anybody who has that kind of sensory system. It's just that ours tends to be that way more often. So, it's not that we are naive, it's not that we are not intelligent. It's that society is telling us that what we the touch that we like, is wrong. So, then we don't talk about it, and then we can't be safe because we can't have support. Yeah, and that's the real problem.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah, before we continue, and I love what you're saying, but before we continue along with that, for the sake of a lot of Autistics in our intersectional communities that may not have a solid definition. What is sexual abuse? How do we classify sexual abuse? I'm gonna let you answer that, please.

AJ Locashio

Yeah, absolutely. Sexual abuse is any kind of sexual action that is harmful to us that we do not consent to, that we do not want, and it could also be something that we're unable to consent to. For example, if somebody is drinking alcohol, you no longer can consent if you are, you know, if you've had more than a couple of drinks, somebody can take advantage of you because you are not able to think or speak or communicate in the way that you would if you were sober. And that can happen for many different reasons as well. It doesn't have to be drugs and alcohol. It can also be something that is where you don't feel safe. There's a power dynamic there where you don't feel safe and you don't feel that you are allowed to say no, you don't feel that you are allowed to say how you really feel. That also is abuse, and that is sexual abuse, if it has any kind of sexual intent.

Philip King-Lowe

Yes, one of those things that can lead to sexual abuse or is already sexual abuse in progress, is, is exploitation. Now, the words that I were given to explain what exploitation means is that when someone's right to consent or not consent becomes overpowered so that they can't give their give their consent. Go ahead and speak to that.

AJ Locashio

Yeah, and this is, unfortunately what happens a lot. Again, we are a systemically marginalized group, and automatically, because of that, power dynamics are in play. So, when we have somebody who, who we trust, they might very quickly put us into a place where we feel like we don't have the right to speak out. As soon as that happens, our right to consent is still in place, but we don't feel like it is and it's that feeling and us not doing it because we are afraid for our safety, then we can become exploited. And again, that's not only Autistic folks, it's anybody. However, because of our marginalization, because of many things that we have heard and because of what many other people think, it can happen more often.

Philip King-Lowe

Few years ago, I had that show about consent, and one of the harder parts of being Autistic in a lot of sexual situations is that many of us are our wish for consent doesn't get really respected, and in many cases, our ability to consent or not gets taken advantage of. So let me be clear, as I have in the past, that with Autistics, as far as consent is concerned, you must be explicit. You cannot be implicit. In other words, someone cannot just imply consent. You need to be explicitly. “I give you my consent or no, you do not have my consent.” And as my guest, a few years back and I were talking, you absolutely have the right to give your consent, and you have every right to rescind your consent at any time. Let's speak to that, because of how important this is for a lot of us, especially those of us who may become nonverbal during a sexual experience, those of us who are non-speaking, you know that where we need some devices or some signs, you know "you don't have my consent." And of course, because we've got that horrible stereotype that, you know, we're disabled people, and therefore we should be asexual period. Let's take care of one at a time. Let's talk about the explicit consent part and how that can, of course, be an instrument of sexual abuse, and how we can prevent that. Go ahead.

AJ Locashio

Yep, and I love this because I think that, no, I know that a lot of people think that we are naive and that we don't know. And what I have found is it's actually the opposite. We know what we consent to and what we don't, and we can tell you what consent is, and we understand it very well. A lot of times, when I talk to other people, I can say, well, what is consent? And they'll go saying yes or no, and that's about as far as the understanding goes. For people who haven't had to deal with consent being an issue for every other aspect of their life. We tend to get quite a bit of practice with consenting and not consenting to the foods that we eat, the things that we do, the clothes that we wear, all of those things all of our life. Those who are diagnosed later on may have a little bit more trouble with that and are learning that. But again, I find that Autistic folks are more knowledgeable than the general public about consent. So again, I want to take that stance that we do have these tools in place already. We use them regularly, and we can use them in sexual situations as well. So yes, at any point in time, you can be doing an activity, and then let's say, I'm just going to use an example. Let's say everything's going along just fine, and then suddenly, the there's a dog hair on the sheet, and it pokes you, and it makes you really uncomfortable, because the texture that you're touching has now changed. At that point in time, your nervous system says, Well, stop. I don't feel safe anymore. It is okay to let your partner know. A lot of people think that it is not fun. It takes away some of the most fun part of it, of sex, by having conversations and by talking about it. And that's just not the case. Again, and my many years of working with a lot of different people. Once they get used to this new thing of talking and being very explicit with their wants and their needs and their desires, they find that it actually dramatically improves their sexual experience with their partner or partners. So, let's just take that off the table and say it might feel awkward at first to have conversations we're not used to having. However, once you get used to it with that person, it makes things much better, and that's a huge key to our safety, is being able to talk about it, being able to explicitly say, “Yes, I want this. No, I don't want this.” There's actually a really good tool out there to help with that and to help with that consent piece as well, and it's called a yes, no questionnaire. And I'm happy to give you that link so that people can go to it, because it's something that you can do by yourself, to understand yourself, maybe talk to some friends about it and have some conversations, or read up on it, get to know more about it, so that you can go into a situation and really know yourself. It's kind of like reading the menu from a restaurant before you go, so that it's not a surprise. That it's a great tool, and that self-awareness is the first of four things that I say are the most important for us to be safe in our relationships.

Philip King-Lowe

And I'd like to add here that consent can include things like, I don't want to be hugged. I don't want to shake someone's hand. It can also be, even in a situation where there is no sex involved, somebody to take a picture of me. I can say no to that. I have the right to say no to that. I have the right to say, I don't want my picture taken if you have not asked me first. And the same thing goes with any sexual act or any other type of touch, you can set your own boundaries as to how you like to be touched, when you like to be touched, when you don't want to be touched. And part of sexual abuse, okay, it involves, usually some kind of sexual act when somebody does not respect your boundaries. That, of course, can be a, you know, it can be a sign of sexual abuse is already in progress. So let you talk about that.

AJ Locashio

Yeah, and let me just say that sometimes, in a situation like that, where somebody isn't respecting my boundaries, and that's number two on my list of four things, by the way. The first is self-awareness. The second is boundaries, which comes along with self-awareness, when sometimes it's not intentional. They're not intending to harm even though the act that is happening is harmful, and again, that's where we need to have something in place prior to this relationship. Whatever it is, it could be work. It could be just a social situation. We have to know these things in advance. We can't come up with our boundaries right in the moment. That it just doesn't work that way. We have to explicitly think about, what are the things that I accept, what are the things that I don't accept. Now in the moment, if I don't feel good and I don't like it, I can say no. I don't have to have a reason for it. I don't have to have it super thought out. I can say no at any point in time. However, we have a tendency to overthink. Sometimes we have a tendency to get stuck in our thoughts, and instead of saying no, we might try to figure out why we want to say no, and then we don't say no. That's why thinking about it ahead of time helps us, because we don't have to get stuck in our thoughts because it's already there. We've already had that time to process these things. However, what I like to tell people who tend to get stuck in their thoughts is, if you feel like saying no, say no, right then. You can say no, you can ask somebody to stop, and you can say, I just need a minute. And this happens to us a lot. We need that time to think, and it's okay to say no, and if we have a partner who can't accept that, they're probably not going to be the best partner for us. Right. There will always be times when we need to stop for some reason. And again, that's not because we're Autistic, that's because we're human. It may just happen to us a little bit more often. Exactly yeah. So absolutely, knowing those boundaries, and there are different kinds of boundaries. There are nine different boundary domains, and again, we need to, we need to take the time to talk about this and to know it. And unfortunately for the Autistic community, there aren't resources out there that are there. These resources are not, definitely not marketed to us, right? They are marketed to cisgender, heterosexual, white people and definitely non disabled people. Right. So, if we started having more bigger conversations as a whole community, there will start being more resources for us to use, and it's that access to resources that empowers us and helps us stay safe.

Philip King-Lowe

One of the resources that I can suggest that some people use is actually from the last time, when I had when we talked about the matter of consent, and also relationships, dating and that kind of thing. One of those resources actually comes from Minnesota. It's called madhatterwellness.com. It is a resource from Minnesota, as I say, where they talk about sex for all abilities. Leah Bauman-Smith actually was my guest to talk about abuse and all that. Yeah.

Following this next commercial break, AJ will give some helpful tips on how Autistics can work on our boundaries when we are not sure what our boundaries are or should be. We will talk about the power dynamics of historically marginalized people being targeted by sexual predators, how Autistics can prevent ourselves from being accused as sexual offenders, and how we can be empowered to talk about preventing sexual abuse by having the difficult conversations about consent and sexuality.

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Segment 3

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Philip King-Lowe

Today’s Autistic Moment and our guests are bringing these in-depth topics of conversation to the forefront. Guests such as AJ Locashio join me as do other Autistic Adults who love our intersectionality and believe that we should have equality and equity in the world around us. Autistics are leading initiatives to open other opportunities for Autistics to use our tenacity to find each other for understanding and support. The sponsors and supporters of Today’s Autistic Moment help make this programming possible. If you'd like to contribute, please visit todaysautisticmoment.com and click on "Support Today's Autistic Moment." You can make a one-time donation of $10 to $20 or more through Ko-fi. Donors contributing $25 or more will receive a complimentary logo lapel pin. Alternatively, you can become a monthly supporter through Patreon and receive a free logo 16oz drinking cup. The hyperlinks are included in the transcript so they can be accessed easily. Your support helps keep Today's Autistic Moment accessible and true to its mission of exploring, engaging, and empowering our Intersectional Autistic Adult communities. You can also support the podcast by sharing the show and each episode on your social media networks.

Now join AJ and I as we continue our conversation.

Philip King-Lowe

Let's move into the second question, of course, how can we get our intersectional Autistic Adult communities engaged with knowing what sexual abuse is, knowing what those boundary points are, and I'm going to let you list them in this question, just to have a general listing of what those, you know, those boundaries are, I think you said nine.

AJ Locashio

Yup, there are nine.

Philip King-Lowe

Let's talk a little bit about that.

AJ Locashio

Yeah, absolutely. So, knowing our boundaries again, that's where we “Yes, I want this. No, I don't.” And then there's that maybe in the middle, sometimes we don't know exactly, but we need the time to maybe think about it, or everything is context specific, right? When we are alone, it's okay if you touch me this way, but when we're in public, you can't touch me like that. So that's one of those where it's context dependent, and that's why I say boundaries are really difficult sometimes because it is something that needs to be intentional and it needs to be thought out. And it helps us when somebody goes, if we say no and they say why, they're going to respond differently. And I'm talking about general people. I'm not talking about an outright sexual predator here, right? Sexual Predator is somebody who's going to act very differently than anybody else. So, when we have a boundary and we are able to say, I don't want this because, and we give the reason, you know, I don't want you to touch me like that in public, because it makes me uncomfortable when other people look at me and then I can't enjoy it. Somebody's going to respond differently to that than I don't know. Just don't do it. So, when we, I mean, we, like a lot of us like to have reasons, and we like to know why. So, I think we can understand. We want to know why for ourselves, and we also want to be able to share that with somebody else, so that we can be very explicit with our wants. And those different domains for that are social. So, in social situations, emotional, physical. Sexual is its own domain, even though it has social, emotional and physical kind of wrapped up together, sexual is its own context. So, it has its own boundary lines. We have intellectual boundaries. We have environmental boundaries. We have occupational boundaries, financial boundaries and spiritual boundaries. Now, when you're in a sexual relationship with somebody that's extremely intimate, so a lot of those boundaries are kind of playing in a space together, right? Our spiritual boundaries, our emotional boundaries, our physical boundaries, our intellectual boundaries, they are all kind of coming together in that sexual space. So again, that's why being intentional and being able to have conversations in advance really helps us be safe in a variety of different situations.

Philip King-Lowe

This is where I want to talk about a policy that I've adopted, and why I've adopted that, that boundary for myself. One of my boundaries, one thing that's important to me is before somebody begins the physical gesture of a hands shake, or the physical gesture of a hug. I want them to ask me first, because when somebody's already in the physical gesture, it makes me feel like I'm obligated, and it's more difficult for me to say no. One of the reasons that I'm doing that is because of the horrible number of Autistics who misunderstood a kind gesture or a simple handshake or even a particular conversation that just seemed to go in a particular way, they took that to mean that the other individual would like something more intimate, and they were wrong. And unfortunately, the result of that has been many Autistics, let's say unjustly, have found themselves before a judge who decides either they must go through a lifetime of counseling, or they need to be incarcerated for a period of time, or they must forever be labeled as a sex offender. Okay? And as Leah Bauman- Smith said many years ago, this is not the fault of the Autistic. This is the fault of a society that has misunderstood and has not educated a lot of Autistics about what is appropriate, what is inappropriate, how it works for each individual, what something means that we have done a horrible job. In fact, we haven't hardly done a job of really helping Autistics to understand those kinds of boundaries. And I hate classifying us Autistics this way, but we don't always know what someone's intention is when it comes to intimacy. You may not be able to recognize it for what it is. So, when we're talking about creating some boundaries here, and yes, this is part of the engagement of conversations, especially around sexual abuse, because we know that Autistics of color have been sexually abused in high numbers. Yes. I know of one incident regardless of gender, regardless of gender, exactly you know. We know of women, for example, who have migrated to this country and have been raped, assaulted, just because of their wherever they came from. And we know that we see a lot of abuse towards trans individuals with the intention of violating their gender, their gender decisions, whatever they may be. And we also know that you know a lot of communities, including and especially those of disability communities, that really do experience a tremendous amount of sexual abuse. It goes without saying that one of the most common forms of sexual abuse happens because of a PCA, we do hear a lot about that, and sadly, that is true, so I'm going to let you talk more about that. AJ, go ahead.

AJ Locashio

Well again, that's that power dynamic. Um, anybody who is in a historically or systemically marginalized group, we are oftentimes seen as less than human, and as soon as somebody sees you as less than human, they believe that they have the right to do with you as they would like, and unfortunately, there are sexual predators out there who purposefully put themselves in situations to take that power. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who have been labeled like you were talking about who are not sexual predators. And the way we react to these things is very different. You know, the way we the way we respond to somebody who is a sexual predator, who is purposefully harming people because they like the power and they want to do that, versus somebody who doesn't know, doesn't understand. There is a very different response to that, and it is education and communication, and unfortunately, all of these groups that you just listed are seen also as less intelligent and less able to decide for themselves what they want for their own body. We are not seen as autonomous beings. That is what needs to change as people need to understand that. As society and the, you know, Philip, I'm talking in this really big like we need to make these societal changes. It really is a society thing, because it’s what society says and what is in the media and what is on television, what we hear on the radio, what we read in books that we accept in our brain as normal. And what we see is men acting in a specific way toward their sexual partners. And that means that as an Autistic, when I see that, I read that, I hear other people talking about it. That's what I think is normal. So, when somebody comes up to us and they give us a hug, then we may think that they want us to caress their bottom, and that's not what they wanted. But when we have seen that, when we have heard that, when that is what is the social norm, that's what we do. That's the action that we take, because we have spent so much time studying and trying to be normal, we might even make that action if it's not what we want to do. Because we think it's what we should and that is where it is so frustrating to see somebody have to go to court, somebody have to stand in front of a judge because they did something they didn't even want to do because that's what they learned they're supposed to do. And we have been told that we are supposed to act like society tells us in order to move up in this world and do the things that we're supposed to do as adults, it's very confusing. So, we don't even consent only with another person. We have to understand and be able to consent with ourselves. Do I want to do this action? Why do I want to do this action? Am I doing it for me because I want to? Am I doing it for them because they want to do both of us want this right now, together.

Philip King-Lowe

I think some of us could use some help in maybe some generalized information about when certain things are appropriate and when they're not. There is a story about someone, actually in England who got on board a one of their subways there and just happened to notice a woman who was wearing very lacy stockings, and just said, started to look them and sort of pat them and that sort of thing. And later on, he got a visit from Scotland Yard. You know, there are just certain things that as a matter of public rule that we just need to understand. I'm going to start with one that if it's somebody you have not met before, someone you haven't seen before, someone you haven't interacted with before, it's really best that you not physically touch them or even compliment them on anything. You know, there's a lot of people who, and again, this has to do with the things that we've often heard someone say, I like your hair, I like your sweater, I like this, I like that. And the thing is, is that is border lining on a hit, as in someone hitting on somebody. But you know, that's because our society has changed those rules because of sexual abuse and other things. So, let's do some, you know, to prevent sexual abuse for us and to prevent some of us from being, you know, finding ourselves as a sexual offender because we didn't know really what we were doing. Let's maybe help with that. Please go ahead. AJ.

AJ Locashio

So again, that is like you said, this is somebody who you don't know, and maybe you do just think their hair is really cool looking. We have to be aware unfortunately, that oftentimes our expressions, our body movements, the way we interact with the world around us is different than what society says is normal, and that automatically in the brains of the people seems dangerous and scary because we're not like them. Now, on top of that, you put somebody whose skin color is a different skin color than yours. You put somebody who is from appearance a different religion than you are. Everything that is different than another person can seem really scary to the brain, and so when we understand that it can help us not make those gestures that seem scary. So yes, I want to tell this person over here that their hair is really pretty, or that they're really pretty, or that their outfit is really nice. I have to stop and ask myself, how are they going to interpret my message? And then I have to make the decision on, how can I frame this message so that they interpret it the way I want them to? We do this every day of our lives. As Autistics, we spend so much of our mental energy thinking about, how is this person going to interpret what I say or what I do? So, we have to do that in these situations as well and make sure that I'm not making that person uncomfortable and being aware of that. As a female appearing person, I can look at another female appearing person and say, Oh, your hair's so pretty, and oftentimes they don't think anything of it. But you Philip, if you are sitting there and you say it to the same person, you might be seen as a predator just because you are a male appearing person. And so, we have to think about that too. You know, I have a friend who is six foot six, the most lovely, sweet human on the face of the planet. However, he has to be very aware of how he moves through the world just because he is a large man, and that scares people. They don't know that he is kind and loving and would never do anything to harm them. All they know is that he is a large man. And so just our awareness of society and how society sees and reacts to things can help us make decisions on how we are going to act in society. And that's, you know, it's sad. It takes a lot of energy, and it's not just Autistics who need to do this, right? Everybody needs to do this. And I would say that we are probably better at it already than most. But if you see that somebody is uncomfortable because you said something, then ask them, I'm sorry, did I make you uncomfortable? How can I, you know, what did I do? I did not intend to do that. Would you like me to move away from you? You know, it's okay to ask if you notice that somebody is uncomfortable. If they get angry, if they ask you to move away, if they tell you to stop, it's okay to move away and that because you didn't mean to, even though that is hurtful and harmful to us, we have to do it when somebody tells us to. If they go, ooh, gross! Move away. Don't try to don't try to touch them, to say what I didn't mean to do that. Just say, I'm sorry that was not my intent and move away.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah, my third question is always, how do we empower our Intersectional Autistic Adult communities here?

AJ Locashio

I think you are doing it. Having these conversations is the way to empower us. We cannot do it alone. We cannot learn this alone. Again. Like you said at the very beginning, we have these skills already. We use them in other aspects of our lives. So, understanding that what other people say is wrong. Some of us are asexual. That doesn't mean that we don't have sex. We still need to have the awareness and the education. So how do we empower us? We fight for comprehensive sexuality education in schools. We fight for the right of disabled folks to participate in those conversations in schools and in colleges and in other adult contexts. We do things like participating in different activities in the community where safe people are having these conversations, and if they don't exist, we create them. We invite somebody to come in. I, as a white person, should not be going and having these conversations in my community without finding some other professionals of other intersections, to be there as well. Because my experience is not the experience of everybody else. I work at a sexual assault center, and in that I have to understand and be very humble that somebody might not want to talk to me, they might feel more comfortable talking to another person, and that is okay, and that's what the professionals out there need to know and understand. So, when there's a professional talking to us, it's okay for us to ask them if they know somebody who is, "Do you know somebody who is like me, who I could get some information from, who I could learn from, because I want to know their experience." It's okay to say that.

Philip King-Lowe

I think one of those places that needs some empowerment, and this is definitely not easy. Even in a progressive state like Minnesota, our laws around sexual activity among disabled individuals is so antiquated, it isn't even funny. Yup. I mean, in our situation, like, if someone's in a group home, they cannot engage in any sexual or romantic relationships of any kind, and that is mostly because of the liability problem if something happens, agreed, but we really do need to work on educating the public about that. You know, not all disabled individuals. Not all Autistic individuals. Not all Neurodivergent individuals or people. We do have sexual needs. We do have the need for accurate sexual education. We have those needs, and, you know, we have every reason to pursue some kind of relationship if we so choose. And we certainly do have the right to protect ourselves from abuse. Let's and again part, let's, let's talk about, let's talk about some ways that we can really prevent abuse. I think we may have talked all talked a little bit about this anyway, but let's get ourselves empowered to use those skills that we already have, and maybe to build up on some skills that that we didn't even know that we had, that we can acquire. I once had a spiritual director who was extremely wise, who I was talking about something completely different. He says, he says, he says, you know, you do have those abilities. You do have those, those things, you just need to exercise them, just a little to strengthen them. And so, let's talk a little bit about that, please.

AJ Locashio

Yeah, you know that's the thing is. Again, people often tell us that we don't or that we can't, but if we want to, and we do, we can access this knowledge. We can learn new things if we don't already have it. We can learn new skills, and just because it's not something that is, oh, trying to think of how to put this, just because society in general does not celebrate having boundaries and the mental health benefits of consensual sex. That's not something that is celebrated in our society. Just because they don't doesn't mean that we can't. And in us doing so and us becoming empowered in that as individuals and as a community, other people will start to see that, and it can become a norm. Just like we are working now to get people to understand that not all brains are the same. And that individuals have the right to be who they are authentically, and that disabled folks have the right to be autonomous and to make their own decisions, we can have that same discussion and that same fight for our sexual rights. We're on the path. It is one of many rights that we have that all comes under that one big umbrella that we are advocating for.

Philip King-Lowe

Especially where we're in this time of bodily autonomy being so heavily attacked in one way or another, in one particular person or persons as we say. You know, Devon Price was talking a few episodes ago about, you know, someone has the right to decide what to do with their body and Devon also talked about how, you know, we do have the right to make a mistake. Yes. You have the right to change our minds, even if we can't necessarily change what we've done already. Right. But the thing is, is that, you know, we need to be able to make those choices and not have our government or some project. I'm not even going to go there right now. You know something that tells us that we can’t, or we shouldn’t, and that sort of thing. But, yeah, I mean, I mean, this is where a lot of this is coming from.

AJ Locashio

You know, Philip, I think for a lot of folks and the more systemically marginalized you are, the more you think about what fight am I going to have today to reach that goal that I have of ultimate freedom and autonomy? And sometimes we look at sex and sexuality as maybe non important, because there are so many other things that are more important. But our sex and sexuality are a natural part of who we are as human beings. And when we say that, it's not important, and this, again, asexual, people still have all of the rights to consent and to say no or to say yes and all of this. So even people who may choose not to have sex there, that choice is still something that needs to be fought for, right? And so, sex and sexuality is very important. It's right up there at the top of our rights, because it is part of who we are as human beings. So just as we are fighting for all of these other rights, we need to understand that our well-being is number one. Sex being part of sex, sexuality, touch, relationships, all of this being part of our well-being. We can't not have the conversation. We must be talking about it. Our well-being depends on it, and if we are not well, we cannot fight, yeah, or I should say we absolutely can fight, but we cannot fight as effectively. Yeah. So being proud of being a sexual being. Loving yourself and loving that part of yourself. Let's normalize that, because that will go far in our empowerment.

Philip King-Lowe

One of the most important parts of empowerment goes back to what I have always said on multiple shows. You must be the expert about your own brand, make and model of Autism. And you must be the expert about how to communicate that. Yes. One of the things that is important to remember is that any sexual activity is an all-sensory experience. It uses all of them. Not just some of. Sight, smell, taste, touch, everything, and so this is where knowing your sensory diet, your exercises, whatever you use. This is where this is very advantageous to you. Yes. One way that you might want to become empowered. One way that you can kind of help yourself become empowered is to make yourself some lists. Yes. Maybe this is how I know that you know I have given consent, and the other person respects me. These are ways in which I know someone has not respected my, my right to consent or not consent. And these are some ways in that I might know that sexual abuse is in progress. And what I what some steps I might take to reverse that scenario, which could be just remove yourself from the presence of that individual. And you know, if you must just force your way out of that somehow, some way you can, it can also be just reminding yourself that you must be explicit, and if you can't even exercise your right to explicitly consent, that's probably a good reason to get out of there. I have also advocated for, and this applies to sexual situations. This applies to any number of scenarios. And I know this is so difficult because of how many Autistic Adults and many of our intersectional communities, we are so isolated and lonely. Yep. But I say this in all honesty, if you have begun to date somebody, and you make it clear that you are Autistic and that you as part of your forming your relationship. You tell them that you need them to understand better, understand and learn about your brand make and model of Autism. If they say, No, it's a good indication already that that person is not the right person for you. Right. There's a tendency to for a lot of us to keep pushing, keep commenting, keep going after somebody who may have said no, hoping they're going to say yes. But the fact is, is that the more you leave yourself in the path of that individual who says no, the more likely is that they are going to affect you negatively or abuse you or something. And then it's even more, a little more difficult, even to start saying, No, I need to back up, back off this. Again, I know this is very difficult. We want that companionship, we want that intimacy, we want that closeness to another person, but if they're just not willing to, you know, to listen. I mean, if they're saying no, I don't want to hear about that Autism thing. No, that's not a good thing. That's not a good step for you. And you will want to really seriously consider just saying no, we cannot continue with this then, and I mean, it is a skill that you will need to learn, but it's also, again, just one of those things that you must take into consideration, because if you, yourself, do not protect your right of existence as an Autistic person, then nobody else is really going to do it for you, or it's going to be hard to get people to do it for you. Yeah. Another, another step that you might take as part of empowering yourself is you have somebody else in your life that you trust, someone you can talk to about your relationship, someone you can talk with, whether it's a therapist or just or a friend, somebody you really trust, you know you can always talk with them and say, What does this sound like to you? And let them say, it sounds like you're probably in the path of abuse. You need to remove yourself from that immediately. There's nothing wrong with that. So as long as you and the other person have some understanding as to what you need to know, you know. So, these are some things that can indeed empower you to act on your own best interests.

After this final commercial break, AJ and I will conclude our conversations with suggesting some Autistic led initiatives to create communication supports for non-speaking Autistics to express their sexual needs including their boundaries and consent. Immediately following will be Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board.

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Commercial Break III

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Future Shows

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The Summer of Self-Care Series concludes with Lisa Morgan and I talking about Self-Care: Grief Management & Support on September 8th. Grief is a very natural process. Autistics experience grief because of the harm from one tragedy after another on almost and every day from various places. Each Autistic grieves differently from another. Lisa and I will talk about grief for Autistics and how you can manage it and get the supports you need.

On September 22nd, Nicole LeBlanc will be my guest for Autistics Living Among Unsupportive People. Inadequate housing for Autistics often results in living with people who do not support them. Many Autistics live with family, or roommates, or have property managers who are not helpful in meeting their Autistic needs. Nicole LeBlanc joins me to talk about how Autistics can manage their support needs in such environments.

Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment.

Segment 4

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Philip King-Lowe

Before we conclude this, and this is such a great conversation, what are some recommendations that you have regarding our non-speaking Autistics who may not be able to talk or speak, how can we help them to with a matter of consent and abuse prevention?

AJ Locashio

You know, unfortunately, this is a large part of our community who is so often left out of conversations. Agreed. Because a huge part of sex and relationships is communication. So, it is this is why it is so important. And again, I go back to community. As a community, we must understand that just because somebody is not able to verbalize doesn't mean that they can't communicate. So, for those folks who are listening, for those folks who know folks respecting the power of communication and the many, many different ways that it can happen. In the case of sex and relationships, there will have to be quite a bit of work done up front. They don't make, they don't make note cards, and in the different assistive devices, they don't have stuff in there for navigating sex. Maybe I would be happy to work with somebody on creating that what could be added to assistive devices? What kind of apps and things like that might we create to support that? Because just like you said, many folks who are able to verbalize in some situations when it comes to the heightened sensory aspect of sex, verbalizing can't always happen. So, a lot of us need those. And I think that we need to really look at the really safe and secure BDSM communities, the ones that are friendly and accepting of non-white folks. Friendly and accepting of queer folks. Friendly and accepting of disabled folks. And really start looking at that and say this, the communication that happens is really fantastic, and we how can we take that communication style and use it as a benefit to us? You don't have to participate in BDSM itself to be able to use the structure of it, which is really, really wonderful for all relationships. And now my mind is, is going, how can I turn this into who could I possibly work with in our community to create an app that supports this? Because right now, things are so spread out. You know, we've got the scarlet teen, yes, no, maybe form. We've got the BDSM test, we've got coaches, we've got therapists, but we don't have anything that is in one accessible space.

That's what we need. So that I am putting that on my list of to do's and maybe start having some conversations with people in the community. And please anybody who's listening to this send me names like, let's get a community project going to make it happen.

Philip King-Lowe

Yeah. I think that's a great idea. AJ Locashio, thank you so much for this in-depth conversation. And wow, you know, you and I always cover so much ground when we talk. It's really, it's really, and it's really wonderful that we do because there's so much of this information that is so lacking among Autistic Adults. And as you know, one of my goals is to be sure that we get a hold of that information. So, let's do that. Let's talk about some of those things. And you know, let me say that if you have experienced some kind of sexual abuse, you should know that if you are talking to a therapist or a doctor of any kind, and the subject comes up, and it is clear that that's what has happened, then that therapist is mandated by law to act on that matter. And the thing is, is that if you want some help with the matter, but you don't know what to do, by all means to let that person help you and report that. Now it is very possible that you may not realize that you have been abused while you're talking to somebody. And that's okay, because, as I say, depending on whom you're talking to, again, that person may be obligated as a matter of law to report that, but you know, and again, try to have as many resources as possible. I do want to, again, point everybody to the Mad Hatter Wellness here in St Paul. They are actually on the Adult Autism Resources Links page. And you can also go way back to September of 2001 when I had those two episodes with Leah Bauman-Smith where we talked about dating, sex and romantic relationships and the matter of consent. Leah Bauman-Smith is exceptional as well as you are AJ to talk about these things, but you know, yeah, so I definitely recommend them. So, AJ is going to send me some resources, and then you're going to find them on my Adult Autism Resources Links page, where you can get some conversations going about sexual abuse and that sort of thing. AJ, thank you so much for being here today. It's always great to talk to you, and you know this has been a great conversation. Thanks so much.

AJ Locashio

Thank you for having me.

Philip King-Lowe

You're welcome.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Today’s Autistic Community Bulletin Board

All of these events and many others with their links can be found at todaysautisticmoment.com/bulletinboard.

Understanding Autism virtual classes are offered by The Autism Society of Minnesota. These classes are perfect for Autistic individuals, caregivers, those who want to understand the basics of Autism and support Autistic people. Classes will be on September 9th at 2pm. November 11th at 10am. December 9th at 6pm. Classes are free of charge, but you must register to attend.

Are you a professional who works with Autistic people? Such as a therapist, psychologist, occupational therapist, psychiatrist, social worker, case manager, or health care provider? Join the AuSM Professional Networking Group to work with The Autism Society of Minnesota’s Counseling and Consulting team that offers a resource to help you network with other professionals. Group sessions are held monthly. See AuSM’s Event Calendar for more information.

You are invited to participate with The Autism Society of Minnesota’s Jigsaw Puzzle Competition on September 28th at the Mall of America. Competition and registration information can be found at ausm.org.

Go to ausm.org to get more information about these and other Social and Recreational Programs, educational events, counseling services and support groups at The Autism Society of Minnesota.

MNeurodivergent is a social club rooted in a vision of bringing Neurodivergent Minnesotans together to build meaningful connections. Its core principle is to foster an environment where all are treated with dignity and respect regardless of ability or preferences. Go to the bulletin board at todaysautisticmoment.com and click on the Meet Up link to become a member and attend their events.

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Thank you for listening to Today’s Autistic Moment: A Podcast for Autistic Adults by An Autistic Adult.

May you have an Autistically Amazing day.

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